Transcript of Episode 109 - AntiNatalism Negative Living
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00:00:03| have you ever just had a baby and went oops that was terrible I shouldn't have done it did your friend ever just send you a text message today and showed his beautiful bouncing baby boy and you
00:00:15| thought shouldn't it on it that's terrible that's immoral today we're gonna talk about no more babies antinatalism so I'm Dan and I'm Nick books for old friends dissecting
00:00:36| one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep dive into our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping
00:00:49| block baby we don't pander to popular opinion with Mike you can get a little bit dirtier morning this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and is for entertainment
00:01:01| purposes only so join us have a good time so I'm Dan I'm Nick and I think this topic has some points that I actually agree with yes your mother should have aborted you Nick oh that's a
00:01:38| classic high school oh that's good is there an abortion anything you would like to touch on I mean the talk on lucky how it might be right because I don't think it is but no it's so
00:01:51| ridiculous that I think focusing on the positive parts of the premise positive parts of the premise are probably the way to go so I think we can do it yeah the net negative of human beings and
00:02:04| maybe pain and suffering and existential mmm-hmm the negatives are actually positives in this case yeah that's interesting hmm we'll definitely cover that we'll definitely
00:02:15| cover how many babies we didn't have oh I want to I want to touch on that yeah interesting stat mm-hmm cool could you have a step oh you don't I don't have a stat but don't find one
00:02:32| yeah we'll look one up only WWE and TNA ville isn't your own website mm-hmm I will check right now shout out if your anti-natal list if there's more than one of you your anti-natal lists your books
00:02:51| are probably anti-natal istic in material and your when there's more than you know one of you anally needed you know the numbers called anal it's weird because the website for antinatalism
00:03:05| calm it's a 4 or 4 which means it can't be found but it also says default back end which mmm if you go you back somewhere else yeah you know is that the middle is there they haven't published
00:03:16| it yet yeah and also if you buy it you default to the back end you're not gonna have any babies mmm maybes gonna carry on that website ok so what is anti name with natal ism
00:03:29| anti-natal ism by definition if we went by wikipedia I wrote it down here on their page it's a philosophical position that assigns a negative value to birth duh and I needless argue that people
00:03:44| should abstain from procreation because it is morally bad hmm that's can you create another sentient being it's bad is the argument so they're only surviving foundations of idea Jana Jana
00:03:59| I've been born come from ancient Greece that's what we're tracing that one back yeah ancient Greece people have way too much time on their hands in ancient Greece coming up with [ __ ] theories
00:04:07| I don't where it all started isn't it every [ __ ] theory yeah so I trying to cover up every stage baby mm-hmm well think about it I mean that's a
00:04:17| common thing that like you touched on that we do in high school mom showing an abortion huh you know to specify because she could have had one and then had him too so
00:04:27| when you're telling your friend your mom to an abortion he should have motor with you you should always follow up it should have been you I think I did specify than you your
00:04:37| mother should have aborted you served you right guy okay that's that's pretty good that's good so what's the I feel like the key point to this is that human beings are a blight on the planet and
00:04:51| that we're not doing good yeah that's true neither is anything else we just happen to be better at everything yeah like it's not like elephants are like we
00:05:01| believe that earth should be in harmony and they grab tusks with their fellow elephants they're just not sending enough to to create money and fuel and like gasoline and high-powered rifles
00:05:12| and like cars that go hundred mile an hour you don't mean yes your your animal overlord is an elephant it was just the first cool animal that people seem to
00:05:23| think is like loves the earth Wow it's like a symbol of like peace and like for some reason I thought grizzly bear like I just thought like grizzly bears the everywhere and you just like I
00:05:31| saw a video of a grizzly bear killing a deer in someone's backyard and the deer is is like four straight like two minutes I was yeah I did not expect a noise like that yeah
00:05:44| I guess when you're dying you make whatever noise you want it's not gonna be embarrassing for me is it I think there's there's a point where something so painful it doesn't
00:05:54| feel like pain anymore it's just full it's just sensation just adrenaline overwhelming yeah I know if the drums were just like um like breaking a bone I broke a bone and it did not feel painful
00:06:05| it's while I stood still only like bad or weird or only when someone moved on and I was like wicked down there let's play my left foot and I was like oh god oh god I don't know a car accident or
00:06:18| whatever I'm like you got like jagged stuff stick out here probably whoa that's my arm like it's not painful that one anyway we digress as we often do here yeah well no actually that's part
00:06:29| of it though like if you're if you're going to die it's gonna be very painful and that's a net negative and and they even say like there's there's like us like souls have memory they they
00:06:40| somehow fit into this there yeah that the soul is in pain of knowing that it had a life and that it wastes his life for a die painfully hell if they were right and we had souls and we died right
00:06:52| yeah even if you live a decent life and you were conscious when you were dead but you didn't go to like a heaven or a hell you were just kind of floating
00:06:59| around that would suck I think that would be a net negative yeah he'd be like what do I do now it's just the ultimate boredom that would be the worst can't interact with anything it's like
00:07:11| your vision really sucks like you can sort of see things but not really seeing back Tator mode in a video game where you're waiting no but I was thinking that would be cool you gets back in a
00:07:19| lot of creepy stuff what if your vision was like super glory in spectator mode at a video game you couldn't even like launch people shower or like you know have sex or watch the president you know
00:07:30| or do something cool like you would into glory so you just I was envisioning like a hockey puck like once you die like whatever you're moving at you like
00:07:38| slowly drift in the same direction but you have the control of it it'd be terrible like the earth starts to swing away from you and you just like see it disappear and usually oh that
00:07:49| would be a negative in which case I mean if you're alive for forever or conscious forever after the fact I guess yeah I would've wished I would never be born and then you'd have like a group of
00:07:59| souls around you that all died at the same time but they'd like be slowly getting closer and then farther away at some point I guess so hmm sounds kind of sad and folks yeah so let's talk about a
00:08:11| happy topic antinatalism what's the like what's an anti needleless do tell other people to not have kids I think there's a shame to like like is a shame you for having kids yeah yeah okay so this
00:08:30| record I have kids singular I have kids plural yeah well I didn't want to be an English major screw that not all this can be you know the but how could used common comment
00:08:51| section uh-huh the anti-natal list like that because as you're researching this you you end up in oh yeah videos and things like that reddit and you see the comments and you see the comments and as
00:09:01| you see all the comments you're like look this you already know what kind of person they are they jump all over like you're gonna refer to something you posted that had many many interactions
00:09:11| do I forget what I this is your origin but this happened last year so I don't remember it at all I don't but it was about this exact subject it was it was about going to school and who has kids
00:09:22| and you're gonna be able to find it oh yeah I know this is about sweet house Sweden we was deciding to remove funding for private schools so essentially it was destroying private schools and then
00:09:35| it was argument like of preparing your children for the future and then it was in an anti-natal list yes I would so then they were like why even have kids like your kids should be like
00:09:49| everybody else and like put them in a bucket yeah like so why even bother but what I found with all these comments section people as someone who has been reading comment sections on the Internet
00:10:00| as long as they've been around you kind of get a good idea of who someone is just by their rent or their rate or their avatar and the little name and then like unnecessary symbol to
00:10:10| anti-natal essence' know but know what would it be like it'd be like the legs spread and then giant egg you know no I feel like usually it's like an anime character
00:10:24| a hot girl but this is a dude I feel like it's a hot anime character girl we can tie girl yeah yeah like a hot cartoon okay it's their avatar because they're
00:10:38| big in the hentai and stuff and they're intelligent are you calling them insults I yeah yeah I would definitely call them that because hundred percent it's like someone who's
00:10:53| who's not going to have a bigger shot at being in a happy relationship and like a marriage and having children and raising so the person who doesn't have that necessarily not look that drive to do
00:11:06| all those things so there's like I guess there's like multiple components here there's the person that's lived their life and hadn't had kids and maybe they're bitter maybe they decided not to
00:11:15| maybe they're fulfilling the prophecy of whatever and then like maybe they just like all right incapable of having kids again I think this is a little bit bitterness maybe they see that like
00:11:26| there's an environment but environmental impact and they're doing the right thing to the aura Dylan what no one wants to have kids with them like vegans people never won't have kids with vegans yeah I
00:11:35| mean that's disgusting yeah but I mean there's there's do you think there are a lot of the majority of anti-nato lists do you think there are odd balls and outcasts I would say over fifty percent
00:11:52| are maybe maybe there maybe they've failed or maybe they were like their childhood was ruined so that they can never be happy or they can't find a mate or they don't have that I don't know
00:12:02| there's a normalcy to like wanting to mate and find somebody and spend time with them and it's kind of a natural progression even if you like you just spend time with a woman you're probably
00:12:13| going to have sex with her if she wants to consent 100% consent did you get into consent at all hmm so this is one of the weird things is like this is the weirdest one you
00:12:27| can't get consent come on the unborn child are like pre conceived child yeah so the argument from an anti Naida list is that you can't do something to someone without their consent
00:12:41| otherwise it's wrong and when two parents have a child they are not asking for consent from the main person the child now most of the responses are Doug you can't ask in their defense their
00:12:56| argument is you know we know you can't ask so how can you propose to create someone without their permission it's like kind of it's ignoring consent entirely now I
00:13:07| know it's a chicken or egg thing like you could never get consent but you don't have it so to presuppose that you can create them is to presuppose that their consent would have been yes oh
00:13:17| really what this is the way that the anti-natal let's do it like they're like yeah well if you if you did exist and you were happy then that was good but if you were sad then that's not so good but
00:13:30| if we're never born and you were sad that's a pro but if you were never born and you were never happy is that a negative or positive it's like what are you talking about is the [ __ ]
00:13:43| it makes sense but it doesn't it's like it's overthinking uh yeah problem I actually read a commenter who said something really smart it was like um this is the line between logic and
00:13:55| reason sorta like logically you you can have kids do whatever you want this is the Foursquare pie chart yeah yeah which Thomas Aquinas yeah does God exist I had a are you
00:14:09| gonna burn in hell for all eternity well maybe who knows in one of the squares but what he said is this is kind of the dividing line you can't reason out this problem there's probably not a
00:14:20| proper answer for one way or the other like you can't it's like disproving God like I don't know that you could it's like one of those problems that would take forever
00:14:32| and you never fully be able to prove it one way or another is having kids bed probably was apparent yeah when it's terminal it's awful as I was pooping getting my eight
00:14:47| minutes of freedom in I was doing research on the subject and I was like reading these comments from these people who didn't have kids because not anti-natal lists I had to think every
00:14:58| time to say that damn work anti-natal lists that have kids are there I don't know that that right now they would be shamed out of a community I would assume but I guess but if you're like I saw the
00:15:09| light I'm not gonna kill my kids sp that's a harsh so there's another element yeah like if you so this is like the abortion versus like
00:15:19| gene manipulation versus like existing as you are like untouchable yeah touchin em please unadulterated children that's the best way to put it so like if you have a child that has a
00:15:35| disability and it's like has to do with genetics and unlike every child you have it has that anomaly it's like at that point you might be at you might be anti-natal istic because you yeah you
00:15:48| decide that you eat like you can't provide other kid yeah you can't provide a quote-unquote normal child which is awfully but well the only problem with that is is only a normal child gonna
00:16:01| have a good life no I I've seen plenty people that were disabled in some way and leave a perfectly great life right so then you would assume that if you're not gonna
00:16:13| have perfectly normal kids or something that that to have a kid that's disabled or something ruining their life I'm letting them live this is terrible like yeah so is your life it's a net
00:16:26| positive right no it's terrible that's whatever but it's whatever yeah and you've lived the good years - you're not even old and decrepit and lonely depressed [ __ ] your pants
00:16:43| there's some happier old guys some why do you think that I have anyone there have that because they can tell the old guy jokes they can talk with anyone like they wait in line and they can crack a
00:16:53| good one like their their old guys I mean I assume I don't know that don't give a care in the world are literally giving out actual good advice and I don't know I think that if my life were
00:17:06| in a certain way I could end up as one of those old guys you feel yeah thank you got a future he made to go [ __ ] once in a while they they wanna [ __ ] know that they do not talking eighty dude I'm
00:17:20| talking like sixty that they actually yeah they don't get the big at the occasional in Utah do you think it's as good when I'll get old um
00:17:33| yeah because do you know why I think it is I think we had a stat on this on one of our episodes oh yeah the old-age homes there's just no no do you know why I think it's
00:17:44| probably this is good cuz its new old expression like no matter how hot the woman is it doesn't mean that sex is gonna be great uh-huh so I mean it's not about looks about physical sensations
00:17:55| all right I don't know what he's build with her I don't know where they're hanging in I don't know what's hanging I don't know what articles the skin look like what but when you're getting it
00:18:05| good and you're giving it good it's a good time it's also a mental thing like the physical might be there may be who knows maybe but it's the connection yeah that's it the hope it's the thrilling
00:18:20| filling of the void yeah I don't know we'll go back to antinatalism that in that one case of old people banging that I'm anti-natal istic there yeah like that 93 year old Indian fellow who's the
00:18:39| oldest person the father child don't agree with that do you think it felt good when he noted of course mom made was the with the the math it's half your age plus seven or something that was 52
00:18:58| hmm I wouldn't even think twice yeah you could be your great-grandchild is the head if half age plus seven for legal consent 18 reasons only in Alabama 16 will do 80 I don't know depends it's
00:19:23| it's I think I think that's why it's built that way if you're wearing depends it's fine yeah okay where we going here antinatalism superseding someone's consent to be
00:19:37| conceived or maybe you have existence you're acting as God you're choosing who comes into existence you're choosing your being guys anyway I mean you can create an entire human being
00:19:49| mm-hmm regardless you're acting a morally I guess right yeah to create or not to create I guess you could argue that creating is an act it's an act it's natural it's not like you like so
00:20:04| there's a term for some of this there's there's actually three by Peter Wessels F so the one of the first one is sublimation it's like refocusing the tragic parts of
00:20:16| life into something creative or valuable so the negativity of life causes you to create a person which then makes you feel better what's the guy's name again Peter vessel
00:20:26| probably zap okay no I thought I thought was name I recognize from some other walk of life in psychology or something but I don't think at the same guy we got it sorry yeah
00:20:35| so essentially sublimation the there's a creative element to creating a child that is really making up for the negativity so it's like a an anti negativity movement to like make a child
00:20:47| to make something better out of your life but you are creating happiness maybe for yourself while bringing someone in the world that will be negative like you eventually so your
00:20:58| recurring the same cycle which is programmed into us which will eventually make us unhappy okay there's also three other ones there's distraction to just like be entertained by a child
00:21:12| there's anchoring which is an interesting thing it's like you focus on something that is concrete in order to make life make sense because nothing is truly concrete and it always changes
00:21:25| that makes sense yeah you do it with like homes cars physical things so you feel like you know where your you're at what you're doing a lot of value and responsibility mm-hmm yeah the other
00:21:40| one's isolation you feel isolated sometimes people have children just to feel like they have you have friends I think what we're trying to say here is that maybe I am anti-natal Asst huh and
00:21:55| for a dozen years or so I've been thinking about all the women that keep saying I want to have kids and all the mothers keep saying I hope she has a baby but they're bad people
00:22:08| they're terrible people housewives awful people mothers and housewives amoral look me in the eye and tell me you don't think they're deplorable awful
00:22:20| scum of the earth humans women all women alike men are terrible I would like to see the Instagram feed of an anti needle it's like what what could possibly be on there it'd be like this people would
00:22:32| like sad dog no puppies not do puppies animals have no weight they think animals can have kids bringing a sentient being into the world I thought not sentient is it
00:22:46| I think it has emotions does that count as a sentient being I don't know if it was about itself self-aware yeah I don't know I think it does know it is a dog some dogs growl at the reflections so
00:23:00| this one's in the air hmm and the internet ha a dogs have a level of sentience compared to that of a human child ah poor doll the dogs it's so cruel but
00:23:22| this is what an Instagram feed of an inn thein analysts would have in it no fake homemakers naked cookies with their children dressed up and cute outfits no none of that they put on look do you
00:23:34| think I need any list just hate like happiness is it there's a big group of them that's like emo and goth like times wonder what the proportion is to like men and women too it's like I'm actually
00:23:56| gonna guess 50 50th that's weird maybe even more women really know why I feel that way oh it's actually woman the random stat I found on the internet was that its majority female holy crap I
00:24:18| called that and I don't know why but I feel it that's weird Sammy because I know why I know exactly why so hold on women get their value through being able to have a child at
00:24:35| least they have in like the eighteen hundred's in crap like that well throughout history it's wrong we're not here to say that but that's how they were given their value so there
00:24:44| were kind of baby-making machines so they're saying that they should have value that's nothing to do with the baby they're humans they're individuals they shouldn't even have to have babies in
00:24:53| fact when you think about it a man does not be pregnant at all a woman is pregnant her body is a slave to a unborn thing for like nine straight months if it ruins her skin it makes her heavier
00:25:04| it can make she loses her job you know feet swell up and then that thing has to suck the like that of her for what seven years is that we said those kids recipe till they're seven
00:25:14| yeah maximum in our milk episode check it out here huh okay then I don't know so I can actually see it it's women who are angry at that let me come yeah it does I guess because it does completely
00:25:30| ruin your life in certain instances that your body changes completely and you know getting back to what you were might never happen if you were like a single mother yeah you could chew you could
00:25:42| blame the child for whatever you became and become an Alanis yeah realizations as they happen here on the unban dirt hmm yeah you know what it's it's also weird that the child keeps the
00:26:03| guy's last name it's I almost always think of it as a child is a guy's legacy a hundred percent its lineage why but why isn't it a woman's legacy I don't know is that
00:26:16| the physical power do you think we're so like we're definitely physically more powerful than women do you think we're mentally you're gonna challenge us this is the percent of women wrestlers who
00:26:27| can beat us up in denim horse they like stand a chance but in general oh you stand a better chance now I do I do I've lost some weight so I don't know I don't know who can throw me maybe that's a
00:26:42| fantasy of mine [Laughter] you're gonna leak all your fantasy so that somewhere someone out there is gonna pick up on what you're sending
00:26:54| yeah but I'm leaking a millions I don't even know if any of them are real at this point he's got a fantasy about leaking stuff instead we talked about the Pens an old men who know a thing or
00:27:08| two wisdom I got the wisdom and I got the depend so what we're talking about women is taken up the name yeah I don't know I don't well men men are traditionally protectors so I guess it's
00:27:24| some power like the animal kingdom has all these examples of like a lion I like a gorilla they're like the male's of the of the herd the pack the pride so the male does
00:27:38| the quote-unquote work even though he's surrounded by a bunch of women females yeah female 2 like it doesn't I don't know I'm not disagreeing with you agree with
00:27:56| you I just think it's funny here to watch you flounder and have to talk about it in like a you know oh you know kinda way I want to sum it up because it's like if
00:28:06| males a protector the like the powerhouse of the pride and he protects them from whatever attacks then he gets the his name he gets his legacy he gets the credit
00:28:17| wait you want credit for it it's I mean I know I did that's weird though like couldn't you think like two females could defend themselves from like one male is it that
00:28:25| much of a disproportionality it probably buried species the species animal and animal and everything else but no I want an answer Nick give me an answer in the out actually some women are stronger
00:28:37| than men they have to go through trial birth have you ever had your period Dan no no then there you go women are stronger you heard it here
00:28:46| from Nick on the UM panderers first lady's just gotta survive well I found this humorous it's right here on the offender's discount code up yours discount code fu ck y ou you can the
00:29:09| other key points I mean with the whole thing yeah we go on just not in that vein probably no no typically not um nihilistic a little bit this is like nothing matters like why bother a lot of
00:29:22| it I mean what's the it's it's literally the opposite of the point of life correct yeah so procreation is built into us for more 12 or 13 we present manly knows men it becomes
00:29:42| all-encompassing as though we're drilling for uh-huh that's not the word I'm looking for pal all encompassing all around your compass point north it's just the opposite of life just in that
00:30:02| in life you want to keep going you want to procreate you want to extend your DNA you want to have meaning to all of this you want to keep pushing forward you want to you want to create memories
00:30:14| you know to be forgotten you don't want to fade antinatalism is kind of why why keep going why are you doing with antinatalism is interesting because it
00:30:30| maybe it asks you why you're doing what you're doing so there's and if you can't can you answer that without the the words I just described legacy children DNA passing on
00:30:40| memories like what are you doing if it weren't for those things I think of it this way is if everyone decided to stop having children like a children of men but optional like they all decide to
00:30:52| somehow some reason what was the name of that group remember we did that something on the extinction episode oh yeah definitely [ __ ] was the I figure the name of the
00:31:01| group was you'll think of it it'll pop in there as I keep going so like imagine if you were literally the youngest person alive your entire life like you were literally the last
00:31:12| child born oh we talk yes so how much like furniture would you have to move like how much ridiculous [ __ ] because you're taking care of the older people wow
00:31:21| that's weird I didn't actually consider the physical labor sector I was more like voluntary human extinction moving yeah yeah there's a PMT I'll get into them but I actually think it'd be weird
00:31:36| to talk about all the fourth grade teachers in the world oh yeah we spent you'd slowly need less and less teachers like if you're a third grade teacher and the last group of thirty third graders
00:31:49| is coming up you literally don't have a job anymore the second grade teachers are all out of work the first grade teachers are all out of work like that's so weird and if you're a sixth grade
00:32:00| teacher you're looking for a new job because in two years you will be out of work like isn't it weird you'd be obsolete 100% hmm back to my question now this is
00:32:18| serious yeah what are you doing with your life if you can't use the word legacy memory children DNA you are either being a hedonist or an epicurean no what are you doing I was maybe
00:32:31| physically you know sitting here talking to you which I enjoy for memories you want to record that yeah sent it out to everyone in the world everyone god bless those people you're watching thanks for
00:32:45| joining again I was like well I think about this literally daily like what would I do if we retired like I would probably be physically fit I would travel around gather experiences you
00:32:59| want me to say fine yeah I don't think I would do that either I don't think I'd make love to random women that sounds fantastic but that don't think it would happen I'd probably be disappointed well
00:33:15| it's all the same yeah it turns into the same thing as what you're leading towards that you eventually die and yeah things are just your memories and actual actualities don't really matter sort of
00:33:29| I mean I can't argue one way or the other I've never lived and died and then come back and lived and died maybe this is the you reach a goal and then you have to set a new one because you're no
00:33:39| longer happy achieving that goal like you're perpetually unhappy because you can never achieve something and just basking it for all eternity human nature human condition yeah it's it's we're not
00:33:52| even talking about the suffering aspect which I think we should do next okay our next segue but but yeah yeah this part we don't have a reason or a tribe or uh like you're always gonna be unhappy kind
00:34:09| of I know that leads to suffering but you're always wanting something so what's the point a little bit hmm no it's desiring yeah you're never ready to die or ready to leave or ready to be
00:34:23| done you're just always doing they're always hungry they're always moving in a direction I see these pee people at work that are older and childless and they're working really
00:34:33| hard at their jobs and I wonder did they trade some pieces of themselves to put into this job like does the job mean more are they anchoring themselves with the job big they have I guess they're
00:34:46| probably making Bank you assume but some people do it for other reasons making the bank you're not spending a lot kids are expensive yeah they're like a Lamborghini 250 K
00:34:57| per kid Wow it's expensive so I'm not on that case I guess I am anti-natal list cuz I could retire earlier I could be free but I think I'd be boring it says like the inherit the wind it's like who
00:35:14| if you if you have no one to talk to no one to share your experiences with pass them on then what's the point what's the point they can't inherit your wind to your
00:35:23| speech so darian two-edged sword yeah I mean what's the point of living what's the point of having kids what's the point of doing all this well what's the point of not it'll be pretty boring you
00:35:35| the other way too who wrote inherit the wind so I'm curious and by the way it wasn't it the one the court case was a play by a jerome lawrence and robert e lee i think it was the court case but i
00:35:52| forget one of my favorite one of my favorite lines in all time oh yeah what's implicit line it's not a line it says it's like a back and forth between the lawyer and the scientist
00:36:02| expert and the biblical expert because they're arguing about teaching evolution and he says you know God created every laughs in the courtroom laughs he says actually we did some computations and by
00:36:15| Abraham's date and Noah and the age of uh Jesus is this the earth is actually four thousand three hundred and twelve years old so your scientists were off by a little bit he's like that's
00:36:26| interesting you know and he's going on and he said it's funny on the third day God hadn't crazed the Sun yet how many hours was that day and the biblical dudes like well it was it was a regular
00:36:36| day he's I could have been in twenty five twenty five hours typical guys like it could have been there was no Sun and then he's like no you know well how about the tenth day
00:36:47| could that have been 30 hours and he's like it could have been but it said God made the day and then he like reaches over and finds the Geo he's like could it have been a hundred days he's like
00:36:57| that's preposterous he said could have been ten thousand years nothing and he's like order in the court order in the court everyone's yelling and hollering and
00:37:06| he's like he's like just let this man tell the truth or something I don't know but it's it gets pretty heated pretty good huh hmm hey to it I like that
00:37:19| but I don't have anything to comment on it suffering yes so the argument is Nene let's say we're bringing a new life in to the world to suffer because life kind of for the most part sucks yeah and more
00:37:33| suffering than good so this is one of the arguments is that if life is that negative then wouldn't you have like the rate of suicide I think is like two percent it is on the rise and suicide
00:37:44| memes are on the rise but not I want to die yeah we're not saying I do this no no but I want to die is totally a common feeling but not to the point where mass suicides happen all over the place and
00:38:01| it's not worth living you bet I mean yeah but if it were a common thing that life was so terrible that you decided that to end life would be better then there would be no people they like
00:38:14| beyond a certain age like no one would exist if it would happen naturally anyway yeah that's my argument I think an anti neighbor list will say that like you accept the negativity as like a new
00:38:26| baseline and you just kind of like live a negative life without knowing it or like without acting upon it because you're just in incapable of acting I mean this is so absurd as it does just
00:38:40| beg that question like is it negative life a terrible life better than no life I don't know that I have an answer but I also don't know that it matters I think if there's some joy any joy in
00:38:54| anybody's lively if you only have a small moment of joy I think you can hold on to that joy and it will overcome a lot of the negativity in their life I agree sweet isn't a sweet without the
00:39:05| sour yes I mean else guy mm-hmm I thought you know yes that was his name Jason Lee says thing yeah what that's a good call Hans fantastic yeah Benji the dog Benji the dog he's get it all
00:39:26| figured out yeah he does today great movie yeah too bad he can't open his eyelids my favorite scene in that whole movie is when the dog takes to see what do I know
00:39:39| no Tom Cruise he's talking to Kurt Russell this is Memphis oh yeah he's a good actor he's like oh this is steak something and he's like I'm real David I'm Brittany's like ask me anything and
00:39:52| he's like what are the names of your daughter's yeah and he's like what are their names anything I crack up because I'm like make up two names dude he just goes I'm real real such a good scene
00:40:14| huh yeah antinatalism baby one of my favorites oh what's touch on these guys for a second so we brought him up sure the voluntary human extinction movement v eh e + 2 + unite they're good guys the
00:40:31| environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind hmm a decrease in human population prevent a
00:40:42| significant amount of human caused to suffering they're not wrong so a lot of arguments antinatalism are based on one that makes sense it's a you're very low-income family you
00:40:59| have seven children here I see maybe let's not have an eighth child is not a good idea and part of that makes sense you know what I mean so there's another
00:41:10| part of it that also is like I guess if you were to shift time if you were to go back to like the 1500s it's like if you look back on how horrible life was back then with all the disease and the ways
00:41:21| that they fix people via surgery yeah I was like I wouldn't have a child back then that is terrible oh that's I would normally do I'm not back now yeah but if you're 500 years in the future and they
00:41:35| have all these cures it's like life gets even better than it is now it's like I would say like hell yeah let's make multiple babies for the future if it's fantastic better and worse at the exact
00:41:46| same rate you're comparing now to the like surgery without anesthetics no they can't knock you out they're just gonna saw your leg off like you got shot in the leg you're gonna have to just bite
00:42:03| on this leather strop just dig right in as they grind that thing down with a bone saw all I did figure it out push - shaggy mm-hmm-hmm because at some point pain is
00:42:17| just a feeling it's not even painful do you know thing to consider is they didn't have email blasts they didn't have robo calls no one could GPS where you run your boss wouldn't do any of
00:42:28| that I mean there's so much cool stuff you can do back that - the stars were brighter I'm gonna harp on this thing I'm gonna hark on the surgery part of it so back then they had surgeons surgeons
00:42:41| and barbers were kind of the same because they had sharp implements same exact job a surgeon would be paid well for how quickly he could complete his surgery because of the excruciating pain
00:42:53| that he'd be in so the people I could just find the right cuts and do it more quickly it was yeah the barber was paid for how slow he could go I'll have a yeah you think about it Leah
00:43:10| like shaky hands like a Barbara needs pretty deft hands and you ever think like the the medical symbol with the snake and there's two snakes opposing kind of looks a little bit like the
00:43:23| barber pole when it spins a little bit well the derive from similar similar things are they the colors shifted right in white yeah versus blue white they were the same back then I think it was
00:43:39| like red blue and white has a symbol for like barber slash surgeon you were drunk you better better amble into the right one that's all day I'm just saying you know it wouldn't have a kids back then
00:43:55| that's I would I knew about Milan you'd be pounded we're you'd be going to town pound town you've been there in there done that I have been there I have been to town ladies
00:44:10| so suffering we stopped no you can recover yeah is there a good point for suffering you think there are people you think are people that exist that have a negative life like they just didn't get
00:44:26| at the right cards to start and they never got out of it like there are people with mental disease sure maybe they just like constantly in debt and they can't get out of it and they're
00:44:37| stuck in the same spot with the same shitty people and those people take advantage of that person over and over again and it's kind of like high school when you have bullies except the bullies
00:44:47| live next to you maybe they live in your house there should be a bug yes it does episodes about that hmm all predators probably probably are probably our lives that are negative but I also think it's
00:45:10| weird to call someone else's life and that negative I'll be like hi she was raised in a bad neighborhood she never had any money she was addicted to drugs scheme she eventually died at 31 she of
00:45:20| each had two kids the one she had to give up for adoption and like the other of this her parents were her boyfriend always beat her like it was pretty bad only an old job for like six months at
00:45:29| the time no one knew who the second dad was it's pretty nasty her mom got cancer early she had to live with her but it was really weird well he lived it again it was still but no never really left I
00:45:40| don't think she ever went on vacation I never heard about that anyway she would eat a 31 we're all really sad and I'm like I would imagine that's a shitty life I just made up
00:45:51| right there but I can't judge it either I can't be like I wish that life didn't exist I don't know it was a very human centric element to it that's a single person's life but she might have
00:46:02| influenced other people's lives positively by her story by her living she might further change people's lives and she probably killed I don't know how many chickens do you think someone like
00:46:12| that eats a year interesting derivative chicken nuggets maybe that's frying logic yeah it's a lot of lot of dead chickens so maybe she did leave a bad life and she is a bad person we'd be
00:46:27| better off without her no we're saying yeah I think the grizzly bears and the elephants should have taken over the earth by now but we ate them all mmm have you ever eaten really rare no
00:46:38| actually I have not either I wonder if Joe Rogan has to name-drop yeah they are and I think he I think he described it as delicious but I'm gonna read I ate is
00:47:03| like tough and gamey they serve it at the local place around here everybody goes to and you have to this is the best kicker there's a local place you go to everyone has to go they have hurricanes
00:47:16| there's a two-hour king limit and ringabel every time you get the hurricane and it's all sorts of meat and it's outdoor patio bar good place let's bring em out I think they make you grow
00:47:31| your own food they give you your meat you bring it over to the open flame and it's like community grilling everybody has a grill arrow mm-hmm the French hem this is a version of it's like rec let
00:47:42| correct light is like a central oven slash it's like a broiler slash like a like a stovetop or yeah that's kind of neat with anyway um they have a meat that I've never eaten anywhere else and
00:47:58| it's there Oh alligator sorry um alligator it's like together it was a predator it tastes like meat greasy chicken fried chicken do you think an alligator's happy yeah he poops he eat
00:48:17| things sometimes he talks with him tiny little arms that are rubber to give us your neck oh this wouldn't be so creepy if I was an alligator like a human being there's one that's gonna knock it out of
00:48:34| the park what is happiness worth maybe that's our big problem to maybe think we all want happiness what the hell is it maybe it's just something that distracts you pursuit of had allies the pursuit of
00:48:50| happiness I'm actually having it easy endorphins in your body pumping but is it you removing yourself from life so life does suck and anytime you get something called happiness it's when you
00:49:04| can elevate yourself out of life like finally step back not be alive two seconds and just reflect them by yourself I don't know do an episode unhappy horribly like you'd like dogs
00:49:22| obviously get happy they get excited don't what well oh my god we can do one on the UM I have water tune in the music video no joy versus happiness versus the other
00:49:33| one oh is this some yeah ones that Kenya hell-bent yeah how about Kenneth helmet uh-huh yeah what's to mmm it's no joy and they sell bliss and they sell bliss hmm there's a weird abortion clock
00:49:53| there's an abortion counter number of abortions calm United States today two thousand three hundred eight point three so this is obviously mathematical point three oh yeah yeah a sense of robe
00:50:08| versus why don't know how I care at this [ __ ] is but Roe versus Wade yes 61 million 1973 fifty thousand I don't know us this year after 16 weeks of Gen Jed gestation it's 13,000 almost
00:50:35| that's like pushing it there yeah I figure that's the one that is logically like it's the sounds legal oriented so it makes it sound more reasonable I'll talk about this afterwards but not on
00:50:50| the podcast there's a there's another category man I can tell you I have left of it too much again break it up I have to talk about how I do kid laterz is messed up anyone who just goes to the
00:51:06| patreon they are going to let you see that version especially if you're a potential employer that's messed out yeah alright well what else in antinatalism know what
00:51:21| makes you happy most excited about antinatalism arguing with anti-natal ist's not even because I feel like think eliris they cycle back around till they're like no no you don't get it you
00:51:32| don't understand like the premise is that no we get your [ __ ] premise it's just [ __ ] they're like taking their arguments shoving back their face Billy I can't prove you wrong because you're
00:51:42| gonna lean on stuff that's unprovable nasty with them well I noticed she recently started working out I don't want any trouble I don't know where we go from here Nick and then we covered
00:52:08| almost everything Dan we might have so what did we cover we covered up right suffering oh do we do local versus global I don't know what you mean by that there's a local Tom antinatalism
00:52:24| Jesus Christ is the only word I have to stop and think about before I say it it's so weird it seems so again for them negative value to birth via the UM I think local belief that you should not
00:52:37| procreate etc etc because it's suffering it's all you're gonna bring into the world and more suffering to get parking spots etc Sarah I think there's a global it's not like the universal negative net
00:52:51| effective that effective negative there isn't there is a good argument for this one global anti needle ism cuz you're using so many crops so eating so much food you're creating so much movie set
00:53:04| think of that ruining their addiction or without parents and your oh yes once this actually makes sense yeah I mean you might as well dumped their unwanted children everywhere that
00:53:16| are dying suffering struggling and still taking in crops because the live till three or whatever they're taking their burden on taxes this people etc medical bills you could adopt them not created
00:53:30| another child and you'd be that positive that positive I mean you give that kid life I mean adoption yeah it's a good I think the adoptions a good thing under percent is
00:53:42| it weird to think I don't know that I'd ever adopt if so you and I both have children right why you haven't give singular children I have multiple children's but one kid child so I see
00:54:04| myself in those children and it makes me love them that much more there's the there's a compatibility that you understand that you just feel like they're their doors they are yours you
00:54:15| probably feel that with an adopted child too but I don't think it would be nearly as strong I think I think you're onto something but I think you're over inflating I mean the choice of making a
00:54:32| child versus adopting a child I would make a child because I think it it means more to me I don't know that it necessarily does mean more means more right or means more to the kid at all
00:54:44| obviously it wouldn't you know I know that like trying to create a child and having the intent between you and your significant other to do that is something as well there's something in
00:54:59| the creation process it's like not only the sex but the like that you're on the same page is somebody yeah primordial right yeah no you're right there is something to that the birth etc etc
00:55:15| uh-huh it's you're committed you're in the relationship you're in the experience and the experiences you might miss out on that if you adopt a child when they're like three it's like from
00:55:26| birth to being three there's a lot of stuff in there that you're just like holy [ __ ] a child does that like really old we also skipped over this in the
00:55:38| beginning I said I was pooping in doing my 8 minutes of Solitude you have researching this daddy and researching I was just thinking now people who have children
00:55:51| are kind of so selfish because they're having kids their procreating they're taking up parking spaces they're ruining crops in a way they're taking up more room they're ruining this planet and
00:56:02| you're not wrong but selfish is the worst word for it being a parent is the worst thing in the world you literally pay for your crime ten bolt there's no like someone who doesn't have kids will
00:56:18| never have to pay the price that someone who has children there's no out no there's no out you can't turn off kids you're like and I'm not even trash-talking having kids but I am 200%
00:56:29| to prove my point that having kids is a special it's a thing that you do pay for it's not like I have kids and I'm gonna at fancy parties laughing and joking it up with a martini at you know Nene
00:56:42| driving my Lambo like I had kids and I'm paying for it sir you're not you're not a parent 24/7 you are not cleaning up snot with your hands you're not trying to chase him around the house cuz he's
00:56:56| got poop hanging from his butt like you're not doing anything you got off scot-free you know anything I'm the one paying for my crime your anteye anteye need lists I
00:57:07| am those people have it easy you're a chucklehead I had to have a kid and I'm raising it it's way harder than not having a kid and not raising it remembering the net value is I'm I've
00:57:26| covered it I've covered all that suffering can we feed the [ __ ] about families and kids and all the joy that they bring there's so much what they do I don't they 100% they do but all the
00:57:39| Instagram feeds would tell you the opposite then I think they're the biggest joy and then you see I'll see where I go with this one it's like people understand like the time
00:57:51| commitment and they're like from the time you wake up til the moment we start this pod you literally you have no time to yourself like you're working towards
00:58:03| your goals and if you don't have a job you're with them a hundred percent of the time I like homemakers they if they're watching the kids all day that's like that's a lot of time and if you
00:58:16| have multiple kids they don't all sleep at the same time so they're constantly going they're constantly doing things trying to kill themselves doing stupid [ __ ] it's like can you not hold the
00:58:28| knife on the wrong end of the knife please it's like how did you get that in the first place why would you do that that doesn't make sense from a logic point from a growing up point from
00:58:39| anything you've ever seen anyone else in this house do yeah I agree yeah no I think we'd say hey you dropped the knife in lab so there's there's a whole piece of like it's insanity
00:58:54| there's no no way to control it and then people play it up like it's like some sort of like Fantasyland joyful paradise where like you your kid is the best ever he's so polite oh my goodness it's like
00:59:05| what is this [ __ ] like there's no way that this kid is like oh well like these kids are so fantastically awesome all the time there's no way so I put it this way having a kid is the ultimate peaks
00:59:20| and valleys if you don't have a kid I don't think you'll ever experience the lows of not being able to turn off children the literal worst cleaning up after someone for the nine thousand time
00:59:33| and after your job that you hate and then having that person make the exact same s again and then needing to get them juice and then they don't eat the food you prepped after your full BAE
00:59:49| explained the feelings you get it's the lowest low you're always tired always taxed you can't turn it off as you mentioned before there's no five-minute break I mean there's a five-minute break
00:59:59| but there's no seven-minute break whatever you could lock them in their room that's frowned upon it is but what I will say is you also get the highest highs
01:00:10| yeah it's the peaks and valleys idea yeah my son ran pictures are all just the peaks that's it they take pictures of the piece it's the simple things I was laying on the floor today well
01:00:21| watching TV my son comes up puts a blanket on me I'm like where does this come from I do this to you all the time and you noticed finally when he did it to me I'm like cool I'm gonna you're
01:00:34| gonna do this for a long time now look you're gonna do can I hide some candy and just like be like here's a snickerdoodle well what it is is having kids is the highest of highs and the
01:00:49| lowest of lows yeah it's literally so lonely have kids that's the only thing you don't get it how high the high is and how low that low is and Instagram pictures of children's that the thing
01:00:59| you're discussing is just pictures of the highs it's ignoring the lows no one ever takes pictures of a poopy diaper and like shows that how they got all of her hand are like four days because he
01:01:11| didn't want to poop he pooped bigger than I've ever pooped in my life and he was crying and I was like don't cry dude it's just a poop I was like oh my god that's not gonna flush mine he he didn't
01:01:27| drink anything that was like fibrous or like eat anything that was like you know plant base to it he pooped a barbell of [ __ ] and like the barbell got stuck halfway and literally I was like he's
01:01:39| just like walks in the kitchen and I was like what's wrong with you and he just stood there crying and I was like this is not a normal cry so he like took the diaper off I had to like break that
01:01:53| thing apart and like pull it out as like I gotta have like a little suction to it I was like oh man I'm glass the kids and nobody told you about that yeah but without an insert well I wish a little
01:02:08| chocolate bar bell but yeah with all those negatives comes with positive I guess that's cuz there's the only way you say you get the sour you know yeah there's a net net value of
01:02:27| life whatever that number is I've no clue we all get their new needleless we'll do it without children now and for that I say go for it though if you wouldn't be one I really have no problem
01:02:40| with the whole stance yeah I think we were only attacking it because we have children right and let me ask a little I think we went a little hard on it if everyone decides stop having kids I feel
01:02:53| like that's great fine do it yeah we're also relying on children to like like a how do you like Japan is moving towards the like old age they're relying on children to fill the jobs
01:03:05| that are being left by the old people like old people can't continuously work all the labor jobs so it's like yeah so I want to work at the smelting Factory [Laughter]
01:03:26| no I see were saying but I mean if people really felt strongly about this and without having kids my favorite part is Garry Shandling don't be distracted by the beautiful people there all right
01:03:43| me right I'm dizzy celebrity tell it's when Google provides death is the third he died 2016 marks I only recently he looks like a fish that fell from out of water I guess I can't
01:04:06| say that cuz he's dead he looks like a beautiful fish yeah angelic like a Marlin what's the most beautiful fish it's a Marlin it's the whale shark anyway
01:04:26| trying to see what he died from cancer don't use hyperparathyroidism that's what I got a man's home on a pulmonary embolism that's what gets you an export yeah he suffered from Paris Oh
01:04:46| hyperparathyroidism we've I really from with antinatalism I know I kind of do err well I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe is it's not right if they don't want kids don't have
01:05:01| freaking kids yeah it's like they're coming in my house and saying yeah and why did you have the children no I believe that I satisfied have a problem is it a religion it's anti religious I
01:05:12| think isn't it I think it is anti religious cuz most religions try to have more children so that they can take over more of the population and then read their word you damn well said it give me
01:05:22| the word with anti needless would say we're doing it for religious purposes or whatever I've no idea I assure you I am NOT having children for religious reasons I'll put it in writing and send
01:05:34| it to someone well why don't we cover Nick we talked about the origins of anti name but sank stop we don't talk about sex intercourse talk about assassin 63 that philosopher shark a do vault now he
01:05:56| talked a little bit about whether people should or shouldn't have children check it out our book check it in the Ebates talk to my buddy shirt puberty desire lust love look it's cold it's called
01:06:09| goatee facial had come butt butt chins we just sat in a bus sanitization our grabbing that barbell right out of the middle oh man we we we talked about kids and their poop yeah I'm talking about
01:06:31| kids there's not consumption worst thing in the garbage filthy garbage my friend really did have a baby today shoutout Chris your kid kind of ugly um I can do better next time you picked up
01:06:51| antinatalism yeah I should just set that in there and see cuz he would google it you know to me yeah what's yeah I should right you should have checked out anti-natal as I
01:07:05| might you really put that in there something said that t hope so yeah it was in a group text I guess the other thing that we didn't talk about is like we talk about religions and taking over
01:07:21| the earth if you have more children like part of it is like tribal and if you have a larger tribe you can just attack the other person that says no children are terribly I don't think that really
01:07:30| applies not in today's but like in the past when you're breeding your own army like it's fun more Star Wars yeah Star Wars Clone Wars if you're gonna make a bunch yeah I didn't do that one yet we
01:07:51| talked about all sorts of facts scientific anecdotes labels numbers we gave you guys percentages we did enough for if you're doing this for school and you've been watching this for like over
01:08:04| an hour you've got enough to do the report send him whatever like if you are in high school and you're doing one in anti-natal ism and you pick this podcast wing you're welcome
01:08:16| I'm probably gonna be an English teacher in five years now bribe me grading work teacher I might literally be the kid watching this is English teacher talking my antinatalism right where I'm gonna
01:08:28| just barely read it and grade it like a b-plus nobody argues with a b-plus you know I'm saying mortal is anyway we didn't cover that if everyone in the way instantly died okay we got it
01:08:40| we're good then it's like not force death but accidental death like if you're mortal when you pass away I guess an tiniest think that's like a thumbs up like
01:08:52| yes one less as that cool I'm against and I need a little natural to cost as though as many natural causes as possible like a meteorite or like personal that drove over I guess a
01:09:05| meteorite would be welcome right that's weird that's not a good thing I wonder how they feel about their own death and you're preaching antinatalism you don't
01:09:13| retain me vignette hair but everyone doesn't care about their death until it really happens but let's not go there well we talked about anti needless we talked about judgments we talked about
01:09:22| judges we talked about judge sublimation about the new dread you saw the new dreaded tanker ISM both with a woman you do you have you done seen that not read do you read it no it's six years old
01:09:38| probably six years old distraction isolation isolation it some google it while we're sitting here because you want to bring this up this is antinatalism we're gonna bring it to
01:09:49| a close right here with Dredd movie Dredd okay he goes in the building it's the girl from Game of Thrones is the bad guy I think it's her home why is a drug lord dude it's so good it's like five
01:10:08| years older six years old at this point I'm like stay up and watch it who the hell cares Karl Urban as Judge Dredd yeah I think so I know blue is you're talking about the girl
01:10:17| keep looking there's a bad girl there's like gonna be she's probably fifth on the list or fourth on the list anyway the new Dredd it's a recreation of Judge Dredd everyone watch it I saw that movie
01:10:33| at the exact same time that I saw agent film action movie Pacific Rim no like it's in a drug lords house and all the cops get call it in there and he has to fight his way out oh my god John wick no
01:10:53| no no like it's literally it's a foreign film they're almost identical ones the American version that's based on Judge Dredd the other is not but it's badass as hell it's cool like the rundown crack
01:11:05| Janina Headley yeah is that it yes and mama that's her mama hmm you haven't seen this movie I'm not seeing this movie ah dude you need to see dreaded it encompasses everything
01:11:17| about you know doom 2016 was really good game then he like came out of nowhere it was kind of recreation this is Trent it was the recreation of Judge Dredd came out the same year according video
01:11:30| right like 16 to make 14 times my right maybe no you're a little off couple years well I didn't hear what he's done a long time ago anyway everyone at home check out Dredd check out our socials
01:11:47| check out our patreon donate if you're in my class for English right Judge Dredd on the paper I don't care and behavior b-plus everyone everyone at home just stay
01:11:57| tight we have so many good episodes coming tonight we talked about not having babies anyone at home if your listen to this where your girl don't have babies I don't care if he pours you
01:12:08| that second glass of wine I don't care Barry White's playing don't have babies condoms we didn't even talk about condoms or contraception you should we I mean if you don't have a baby right now
01:12:21| use it that's pretty much all I want to say yeah glad you joined us tonight we like you folks pretty like you a lot can I turn in
00:00:15| thought shouldn't it on it that's terrible that's immoral today we're gonna talk about no more babies antinatalism so I'm Dan and I'm Nick books for old friends dissecting
00:00:36| one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep dive into our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping
00:00:49| block baby we don't pander to popular opinion with Mike you can get a little bit dirtier morning this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and is for entertainment
00:01:01| purposes only so join us have a good time so I'm Dan I'm Nick and I think this topic has some points that I actually agree with yes your mother should have aborted you Nick oh that's a
00:01:38| classic high school oh that's good is there an abortion anything you would like to touch on I mean the talk on lucky how it might be right because I don't think it is but no it's so
00:01:51| ridiculous that I think focusing on the positive parts of the premise positive parts of the premise are probably the way to go so I think we can do it yeah the net negative of human beings and
00:02:04| maybe pain and suffering and existential mmm-hmm the negatives are actually positives in this case yeah that's interesting hmm we'll definitely cover that we'll definitely
00:02:15| cover how many babies we didn't have oh I want to I want to touch on that yeah interesting stat mm-hmm cool could you have a step oh you don't I don't have a stat but don't find one
00:02:32| yeah we'll look one up only WWE and TNA ville isn't your own website mm-hmm I will check right now shout out if your anti-natal list if there's more than one of you your anti-natal lists your books
00:02:51| are probably anti-natal istic in material and your when there's more than you know one of you anally needed you know the numbers called anal it's weird because the website for antinatalism
00:03:05| calm it's a 4 or 4 which means it can't be found but it also says default back end which mmm if you go you back somewhere else yeah you know is that the middle is there they haven't published
00:03:16| it yet yeah and also if you buy it you default to the back end you're not gonna have any babies mmm maybes gonna carry on that website ok so what is anti name with natal ism
00:03:29| anti-natal ism by definition if we went by wikipedia I wrote it down here on their page it's a philosophical position that assigns a negative value to birth duh and I needless argue that people
00:03:44| should abstain from procreation because it is morally bad hmm that's can you create another sentient being it's bad is the argument so they're only surviving foundations of idea Jana Jana
00:03:59| I've been born come from ancient Greece that's what we're tracing that one back yeah ancient Greece people have way too much time on their hands in ancient Greece coming up with [ __ ] theories
00:04:07| I don't where it all started isn't it every [ __ ] theory yeah so I trying to cover up every stage baby mm-hmm well think about it I mean that's a
00:04:17| common thing that like you touched on that we do in high school mom showing an abortion huh you know to specify because she could have had one and then had him too so
00:04:27| when you're telling your friend your mom to an abortion he should have motor with you you should always follow up it should have been you I think I did specify than you your
00:04:37| mother should have aborted you served you right guy okay that's that's pretty good that's good so what's the I feel like the key point to this is that human beings are a blight on the planet and
00:04:51| that we're not doing good yeah that's true neither is anything else we just happen to be better at everything yeah like it's not like elephants are like we
00:05:01| believe that earth should be in harmony and they grab tusks with their fellow elephants they're just not sending enough to to create money and fuel and like gasoline and high-powered rifles
00:05:12| and like cars that go hundred mile an hour you don't mean yes your your animal overlord is an elephant it was just the first cool animal that people seem to
00:05:23| think is like loves the earth Wow it's like a symbol of like peace and like for some reason I thought grizzly bear like I just thought like grizzly bears the everywhere and you just like I
00:05:31| saw a video of a grizzly bear killing a deer in someone's backyard and the deer is is like four straight like two minutes I was yeah I did not expect a noise like that yeah
00:05:44| I guess when you're dying you make whatever noise you want it's not gonna be embarrassing for me is it I think there's there's a point where something so painful it doesn't
00:05:54| feel like pain anymore it's just full it's just sensation just adrenaline overwhelming yeah I know if the drums were just like um like breaking a bone I broke a bone and it did not feel painful
00:06:05| it's while I stood still only like bad or weird or only when someone moved on and I was like wicked down there let's play my left foot and I was like oh god oh god I don't know a car accident or
00:06:18| whatever I'm like you got like jagged stuff stick out here probably whoa that's my arm like it's not painful that one anyway we digress as we often do here yeah well no actually that's part
00:06:29| of it though like if you're if you're going to die it's gonna be very painful and that's a net negative and and they even say like there's there's like us like souls have memory they they
00:06:40| somehow fit into this there yeah that the soul is in pain of knowing that it had a life and that it wastes his life for a die painfully hell if they were right and we had souls and we died right
00:06:52| yeah even if you live a decent life and you were conscious when you were dead but you didn't go to like a heaven or a hell you were just kind of floating
00:06:59| around that would suck I think that would be a net negative yeah he'd be like what do I do now it's just the ultimate boredom that would be the worst can't interact with anything it's like
00:07:11| your vision really sucks like you can sort of see things but not really seeing back Tator mode in a video game where you're waiting no but I was thinking that would be cool you gets back in a
00:07:19| lot of creepy stuff what if your vision was like super glory in spectator mode at a video game you couldn't even like launch people shower or like you know have sex or watch the president you know
00:07:30| or do something cool like you would into glory so you just I was envisioning like a hockey puck like once you die like whatever you're moving at you like
00:07:38| slowly drift in the same direction but you have the control of it it'd be terrible like the earth starts to swing away from you and you just like see it disappear and usually oh that
00:07:49| would be a negative in which case I mean if you're alive for forever or conscious forever after the fact I guess yeah I would've wished I would never be born and then you'd have like a group of
00:07:59| souls around you that all died at the same time but they'd like be slowly getting closer and then farther away at some point I guess so hmm sounds kind of sad and folks yeah so let's talk about a
00:08:11| happy topic antinatalism what's the like what's an anti needleless do tell other people to not have kids I think there's a shame to like like is a shame you for having kids yeah yeah okay so this
00:08:30| record I have kids singular I have kids plural yeah well I didn't want to be an English major screw that not all this can be you know the but how could used common comment
00:08:51| section uh-huh the anti-natal list like that because as you're researching this you you end up in oh yeah videos and things like that reddit and you see the comments and you see the comments and as
00:09:01| you see all the comments you're like look this you already know what kind of person they are they jump all over like you're gonna refer to something you posted that had many many interactions
00:09:11| do I forget what I this is your origin but this happened last year so I don't remember it at all I don't but it was about this exact subject it was it was about going to school and who has kids
00:09:22| and you're gonna be able to find it oh yeah I know this is about sweet house Sweden we was deciding to remove funding for private schools so essentially it was destroying private schools and then
00:09:35| it was argument like of preparing your children for the future and then it was in an anti-natal list yes I would so then they were like why even have kids like your kids should be like
00:09:49| everybody else and like put them in a bucket yeah like so why even bother but what I found with all these comments section people as someone who has been reading comment sections on the Internet
00:10:00| as long as they've been around you kind of get a good idea of who someone is just by their rent or their rate or their avatar and the little name and then like unnecessary symbol to
00:10:10| anti-natal essence' know but know what would it be like it'd be like the legs spread and then giant egg you know no I feel like usually it's like an anime character
00:10:24| a hot girl but this is a dude I feel like it's a hot anime character girl we can tie girl yeah yeah like a hot cartoon okay it's their avatar because they're
00:10:38| big in the hentai and stuff and they're intelligent are you calling them insults I yeah yeah I would definitely call them that because hundred percent it's like someone who's
00:10:53| who's not going to have a bigger shot at being in a happy relationship and like a marriage and having children and raising so the person who doesn't have that necessarily not look that drive to do
00:11:06| all those things so there's like I guess there's like multiple components here there's the person that's lived their life and hadn't had kids and maybe they're bitter maybe they decided not to
00:11:15| maybe they're fulfilling the prophecy of whatever and then like maybe they just like all right incapable of having kids again I think this is a little bit bitterness maybe they see that like
00:11:26| there's an environment but environmental impact and they're doing the right thing to the aura Dylan what no one wants to have kids with them like vegans people never won't have kids with vegans yeah I
00:11:35| mean that's disgusting yeah but I mean there's there's do you think there are a lot of the majority of anti-nato lists do you think there are odd balls and outcasts I would say over fifty percent
00:11:52| are maybe maybe there maybe they've failed or maybe they were like their childhood was ruined so that they can never be happy or they can't find a mate or they don't have that I don't know
00:12:02| there's a normalcy to like wanting to mate and find somebody and spend time with them and it's kind of a natural progression even if you like you just spend time with a woman you're probably
00:12:13| going to have sex with her if she wants to consent 100% consent did you get into consent at all hmm so this is one of the weird things is like this is the weirdest one you
00:12:27| can't get consent come on the unborn child are like pre conceived child yeah so the argument from an anti Naida list is that you can't do something to someone without their consent
00:12:41| otherwise it's wrong and when two parents have a child they are not asking for consent from the main person the child now most of the responses are Doug you can't ask in their defense their
00:12:56| argument is you know we know you can't ask so how can you propose to create someone without their permission it's like kind of it's ignoring consent entirely now I
00:13:07| know it's a chicken or egg thing like you could never get consent but you don't have it so to presuppose that you can create them is to presuppose that their consent would have been yes oh
00:13:17| really what this is the way that the anti-natal let's do it like they're like yeah well if you if you did exist and you were happy then that was good but if you were sad then that's not so good but
00:13:30| if we're never born and you were sad that's a pro but if you were never born and you were never happy is that a negative or positive it's like what are you talking about is the [ __ ]
00:13:43| it makes sense but it doesn't it's like it's overthinking uh yeah problem I actually read a commenter who said something really smart it was like um this is the line between logic and
00:13:55| reason sorta like logically you you can have kids do whatever you want this is the Foursquare pie chart yeah yeah which Thomas Aquinas yeah does God exist I had a are you
00:14:09| gonna burn in hell for all eternity well maybe who knows in one of the squares but what he said is this is kind of the dividing line you can't reason out this problem there's probably not a
00:14:20| proper answer for one way or the other like you can't it's like disproving God like I don't know that you could it's like one of those problems that would take forever
00:14:32| and you never fully be able to prove it one way or another is having kids bed probably was apparent yeah when it's terminal it's awful as I was pooping getting my eight
00:14:47| minutes of freedom in I was doing research on the subject and I was like reading these comments from these people who didn't have kids because not anti-natal lists I had to think every
00:14:58| time to say that damn work anti-natal lists that have kids are there I don't know that that right now they would be shamed out of a community I would assume but I guess but if you're like I saw the
00:15:09| light I'm not gonna kill my kids sp that's a harsh so there's another element yeah like if you so this is like the abortion versus like
00:15:19| gene manipulation versus like existing as you are like untouchable yeah touchin em please unadulterated children that's the best way to put it so like if you have a child that has a
00:15:35| disability and it's like has to do with genetics and unlike every child you have it has that anomaly it's like at that point you might be at you might be anti-natal istic because you yeah you
00:15:48| decide that you eat like you can't provide other kid yeah you can't provide a quote-unquote normal child which is awfully but well the only problem with that is is only a normal child gonna
00:16:01| have a good life no I I've seen plenty people that were disabled in some way and leave a perfectly great life right so then you would assume that if you're not gonna
00:16:13| have perfectly normal kids or something that that to have a kid that's disabled or something ruining their life I'm letting them live this is terrible like yeah so is your life it's a net
00:16:26| positive right no it's terrible that's whatever but it's whatever yeah and you've lived the good years - you're not even old and decrepit and lonely depressed [ __ ] your pants
00:16:43| there's some happier old guys some why do you think that I have anyone there have that because they can tell the old guy jokes they can talk with anyone like they wait in line and they can crack a
00:16:53| good one like their their old guys I mean I assume I don't know that don't give a care in the world are literally giving out actual good advice and I don't know I think that if my life were
00:17:06| in a certain way I could end up as one of those old guys you feel yeah thank you got a future he made to go [ __ ] once in a while they they wanna [ __ ] know that they do not talking eighty dude I'm
00:17:20| talking like sixty that they actually yeah they don't get the big at the occasional in Utah do you think it's as good when I'll get old um
00:17:33| yeah because do you know why I think it is I think we had a stat on this on one of our episodes oh yeah the old-age homes there's just no no do you know why I think it's
00:17:44| probably this is good cuz its new old expression like no matter how hot the woman is it doesn't mean that sex is gonna be great uh-huh so I mean it's not about looks about physical sensations
00:17:55| all right I don't know what he's build with her I don't know where they're hanging in I don't know what's hanging I don't know what articles the skin look like what but when you're getting it
00:18:05| good and you're giving it good it's a good time it's also a mental thing like the physical might be there may be who knows maybe but it's the connection yeah that's it the hope it's the thrilling
00:18:20| filling of the void yeah I don't know we'll go back to antinatalism that in that one case of old people banging that I'm anti-natal istic there yeah like that 93 year old Indian fellow who's the
00:18:39| oldest person the father child don't agree with that do you think it felt good when he noted of course mom made was the with the the math it's half your age plus seven or something that was 52
00:18:58| hmm I wouldn't even think twice yeah you could be your great-grandchild is the head if half age plus seven for legal consent 18 reasons only in Alabama 16 will do 80 I don't know depends it's
00:19:23| it's I think I think that's why it's built that way if you're wearing depends it's fine yeah okay where we going here antinatalism superseding someone's consent to be
00:19:37| conceived or maybe you have existence you're acting as God you're choosing who comes into existence you're choosing your being guys anyway I mean you can create an entire human being
00:19:49| mm-hmm regardless you're acting a morally I guess right yeah to create or not to create I guess you could argue that creating is an act it's an act it's natural it's not like you like so
00:20:04| there's a term for some of this there's there's actually three by Peter Wessels F so the one of the first one is sublimation it's like refocusing the tragic parts of
00:20:16| life into something creative or valuable so the negativity of life causes you to create a person which then makes you feel better what's the guy's name again Peter vessel
00:20:26| probably zap okay no I thought I thought was name I recognize from some other walk of life in psychology or something but I don't think at the same guy we got it sorry yeah
00:20:35| so essentially sublimation the there's a creative element to creating a child that is really making up for the negativity so it's like a an anti negativity movement to like make a child
00:20:47| to make something better out of your life but you are creating happiness maybe for yourself while bringing someone in the world that will be negative like you eventually so your
00:20:58| recurring the same cycle which is programmed into us which will eventually make us unhappy okay there's also three other ones there's distraction to just like be entertained by a child
00:21:12| there's anchoring which is an interesting thing it's like you focus on something that is concrete in order to make life make sense because nothing is truly concrete and it always changes
00:21:25| that makes sense yeah you do it with like homes cars physical things so you feel like you know where your you're at what you're doing a lot of value and responsibility mm-hmm yeah the other
00:21:40| one's isolation you feel isolated sometimes people have children just to feel like they have you have friends I think what we're trying to say here is that maybe I am anti-natal Asst huh and
00:21:55| for a dozen years or so I've been thinking about all the women that keep saying I want to have kids and all the mothers keep saying I hope she has a baby but they're bad people
00:22:08| they're terrible people housewives awful people mothers and housewives amoral look me in the eye and tell me you don't think they're deplorable awful
00:22:20| scum of the earth humans women all women alike men are terrible I would like to see the Instagram feed of an anti needle it's like what what could possibly be on there it'd be like this people would
00:22:32| like sad dog no puppies not do puppies animals have no weight they think animals can have kids bringing a sentient being into the world I thought not sentient is it
00:22:46| I think it has emotions does that count as a sentient being I don't know if it was about itself self-aware yeah I don't know I think it does know it is a dog some dogs growl at the reflections so
00:23:00| this one's in the air hmm and the internet ha a dogs have a level of sentience compared to that of a human child ah poor doll the dogs it's so cruel but
00:23:22| this is what an Instagram feed of an inn thein analysts would have in it no fake homemakers naked cookies with their children dressed up and cute outfits no none of that they put on look do you
00:23:34| think I need any list just hate like happiness is it there's a big group of them that's like emo and goth like times wonder what the proportion is to like men and women too it's like I'm actually
00:23:56| gonna guess 50 50th that's weird maybe even more women really know why I feel that way oh it's actually woman the random stat I found on the internet was that its majority female holy crap I
00:24:18| called that and I don't know why but I feel it that's weird Sammy because I know why I know exactly why so hold on women get their value through being able to have a child at
00:24:35| least they have in like the eighteen hundred's in crap like that well throughout history it's wrong we're not here to say that but that's how they were given their value so there
00:24:44| were kind of baby-making machines so they're saying that they should have value that's nothing to do with the baby they're humans they're individuals they shouldn't even have to have babies in
00:24:53| fact when you think about it a man does not be pregnant at all a woman is pregnant her body is a slave to a unborn thing for like nine straight months if it ruins her skin it makes her heavier
00:25:04| it can make she loses her job you know feet swell up and then that thing has to suck the like that of her for what seven years is that we said those kids recipe till they're seven
00:25:14| yeah maximum in our milk episode check it out here huh okay then I don't know so I can actually see it it's women who are angry at that let me come yeah it does I guess because it does completely
00:25:30| ruin your life in certain instances that your body changes completely and you know getting back to what you were might never happen if you were like a single mother yeah you could chew you could
00:25:42| blame the child for whatever you became and become an Alanis yeah realizations as they happen here on the unban dirt hmm yeah you know what it's it's also weird that the child keeps the
00:26:03| guy's last name it's I almost always think of it as a child is a guy's legacy a hundred percent its lineage why but why isn't it a woman's legacy I don't know is that
00:26:16| the physical power do you think we're so like we're definitely physically more powerful than women do you think we're mentally you're gonna challenge us this is the percent of women wrestlers who
00:26:27| can beat us up in denim horse they like stand a chance but in general oh you stand a better chance now I do I do I've lost some weight so I don't know I don't know who can throw me maybe that's a
00:26:42| fantasy of mine [Laughter] you're gonna leak all your fantasy so that somewhere someone out there is gonna pick up on what you're sending
00:26:54| yeah but I'm leaking a millions I don't even know if any of them are real at this point he's got a fantasy about leaking stuff instead we talked about the Pens an old men who know a thing or
00:27:08| two wisdom I got the wisdom and I got the depend so what we're talking about women is taken up the name yeah I don't know I don't well men men are traditionally protectors so I guess it's
00:27:24| some power like the animal kingdom has all these examples of like a lion I like a gorilla they're like the male's of the of the herd the pack the pride so the male does
00:27:38| the quote-unquote work even though he's surrounded by a bunch of women females yeah female 2 like it doesn't I don't know I'm not disagreeing with you agree with
00:27:56| you I just think it's funny here to watch you flounder and have to talk about it in like a you know oh you know kinda way I want to sum it up because it's like if
00:28:06| males a protector the like the powerhouse of the pride and he protects them from whatever attacks then he gets the his name he gets his legacy he gets the credit
00:28:17| wait you want credit for it it's I mean I know I did that's weird though like couldn't you think like two females could defend themselves from like one male is it that
00:28:25| much of a disproportionality it probably buried species the species animal and animal and everything else but no I want an answer Nick give me an answer in the out actually some women are stronger
00:28:37| than men they have to go through trial birth have you ever had your period Dan no no then there you go women are stronger you heard it here
00:28:46| from Nick on the UM panderers first lady's just gotta survive well I found this humorous it's right here on the offender's discount code up yours discount code fu ck y ou you can the
00:29:09| other key points I mean with the whole thing yeah we go on just not in that vein probably no no typically not um nihilistic a little bit this is like nothing matters like why bother a lot of
00:29:22| it I mean what's the it's it's literally the opposite of the point of life correct yeah so procreation is built into us for more 12 or 13 we present manly knows men it becomes
00:29:42| all-encompassing as though we're drilling for uh-huh that's not the word I'm looking for pal all encompassing all around your compass point north it's just the opposite of life just in that
00:30:02| in life you want to keep going you want to procreate you want to extend your DNA you want to have meaning to all of this you want to keep pushing forward you want to you want to create memories
00:30:14| you know to be forgotten you don't want to fade antinatalism is kind of why why keep going why are you doing with antinatalism is interesting because it
00:30:30| maybe it asks you why you're doing what you're doing so there's and if you can't can you answer that without the the words I just described legacy children DNA passing on
00:30:40| memories like what are you doing if it weren't for those things I think of it this way is if everyone decided to stop having children like a children of men but optional like they all decide to
00:30:52| somehow some reason what was the name of that group remember we did that something on the extinction episode oh yeah definitely [ __ ] was the I figure the name of the
00:31:01| group was you'll think of it it'll pop in there as I keep going so like imagine if you were literally the youngest person alive your entire life like you were literally the last
00:31:12| child born oh we talk yes so how much like furniture would you have to move like how much ridiculous [ __ ] because you're taking care of the older people wow
00:31:21| that's weird I didn't actually consider the physical labor sector I was more like voluntary human extinction moving yeah yeah there's a PMT I'll get into them but I actually think it'd be weird
00:31:36| to talk about all the fourth grade teachers in the world oh yeah we spent you'd slowly need less and less teachers like if you're a third grade teacher and the last group of thirty third graders
00:31:49| is coming up you literally don't have a job anymore the second grade teachers are all out of work the first grade teachers are all out of work like that's so weird and if you're a sixth grade
00:32:00| teacher you're looking for a new job because in two years you will be out of work like isn't it weird you'd be obsolete 100% hmm back to my question now this is
00:32:18| serious yeah what are you doing with your life if you can't use the word legacy memory children DNA you are either being a hedonist or an epicurean no what are you doing I was maybe
00:32:31| physically you know sitting here talking to you which I enjoy for memories you want to record that yeah sent it out to everyone in the world everyone god bless those people you're watching thanks for
00:32:45| joining again I was like well I think about this literally daily like what would I do if we retired like I would probably be physically fit I would travel around gather experiences you
00:32:59| want me to say fine yeah I don't think I would do that either I don't think I'd make love to random women that sounds fantastic but that don't think it would happen I'd probably be disappointed well
00:33:15| it's all the same yeah it turns into the same thing as what you're leading towards that you eventually die and yeah things are just your memories and actual actualities don't really matter sort of
00:33:29| I mean I can't argue one way or the other I've never lived and died and then come back and lived and died maybe this is the you reach a goal and then you have to set a new one because you're no
00:33:39| longer happy achieving that goal like you're perpetually unhappy because you can never achieve something and just basking it for all eternity human nature human condition yeah it's it's we're not
00:33:52| even talking about the suffering aspect which I think we should do next okay our next segue but but yeah yeah this part we don't have a reason or a tribe or uh like you're always gonna be unhappy kind
00:34:09| of I know that leads to suffering but you're always wanting something so what's the point a little bit hmm no it's desiring yeah you're never ready to die or ready to leave or ready to be
00:34:23| done you're just always doing they're always hungry they're always moving in a direction I see these pee people at work that are older and childless and they're working really
00:34:33| hard at their jobs and I wonder did they trade some pieces of themselves to put into this job like does the job mean more are they anchoring themselves with the job big they have I guess they're
00:34:46| probably making Bank you assume but some people do it for other reasons making the bank you're not spending a lot kids are expensive yeah they're like a Lamborghini 250 K
00:34:57| per kid Wow it's expensive so I'm not on that case I guess I am anti-natal list cuz I could retire earlier I could be free but I think I'd be boring it says like the inherit the wind it's like who
00:35:14| if you if you have no one to talk to no one to share your experiences with pass them on then what's the point what's the point they can't inherit your wind to your
00:35:23| speech so darian two-edged sword yeah I mean what's the point of living what's the point of having kids what's the point of doing all this well what's the point of not it'll be pretty boring you
00:35:35| the other way too who wrote inherit the wind so I'm curious and by the way it wasn't it the one the court case was a play by a jerome lawrence and robert e lee i think it was the court case but i
00:35:52| forget one of my favorite one of my favorite lines in all time oh yeah what's implicit line it's not a line it says it's like a back and forth between the lawyer and the scientist
00:36:02| expert and the biblical expert because they're arguing about teaching evolution and he says you know God created every laughs in the courtroom laughs he says actually we did some computations and by
00:36:15| Abraham's date and Noah and the age of uh Jesus is this the earth is actually four thousand three hundred and twelve years old so your scientists were off by a little bit he's like that's
00:36:26| interesting you know and he's going on and he said it's funny on the third day God hadn't crazed the Sun yet how many hours was that day and the biblical dudes like well it was it was a regular
00:36:36| day he's I could have been in twenty five twenty five hours typical guys like it could have been there was no Sun and then he's like no you know well how about the tenth day
00:36:47| could that have been 30 hours and he's like it could have been but it said God made the day and then he like reaches over and finds the Geo he's like could it have been a hundred days he's like
00:36:57| that's preposterous he said could have been ten thousand years nothing and he's like order in the court order in the court everyone's yelling and hollering and
00:37:06| he's like he's like just let this man tell the truth or something I don't know but it's it gets pretty heated pretty good huh hmm hey to it I like that
00:37:19| but I don't have anything to comment on it suffering yes so the argument is Nene let's say we're bringing a new life in to the world to suffer because life kind of for the most part sucks yeah and more
00:37:33| suffering than good so this is one of the arguments is that if life is that negative then wouldn't you have like the rate of suicide I think is like two percent it is on the rise and suicide
00:37:44| memes are on the rise but not I want to die yeah we're not saying I do this no no but I want to die is totally a common feeling but not to the point where mass suicides happen all over the place and
00:38:01| it's not worth living you bet I mean yeah but if it were a common thing that life was so terrible that you decided that to end life would be better then there would be no people they like
00:38:14| beyond a certain age like no one would exist if it would happen naturally anyway yeah that's my argument I think an anti neighbor list will say that like you accept the negativity as like a new
00:38:26| baseline and you just kind of like live a negative life without knowing it or like without acting upon it because you're just in incapable of acting I mean this is so absurd as it does just
00:38:40| beg that question like is it negative life a terrible life better than no life I don't know that I have an answer but I also don't know that it matters I think if there's some joy any joy in
00:38:54| anybody's lively if you only have a small moment of joy I think you can hold on to that joy and it will overcome a lot of the negativity in their life I agree sweet isn't a sweet without the
00:39:05| sour yes I mean else guy mm-hmm I thought you know yes that was his name Jason Lee says thing yeah what that's a good call Hans fantastic yeah Benji the dog Benji the dog he's get it all
00:39:26| figured out yeah he does today great movie yeah too bad he can't open his eyelids my favorite scene in that whole movie is when the dog takes to see what do I know
00:39:39| no Tom Cruise he's talking to Kurt Russell this is Memphis oh yeah he's a good actor he's like oh this is steak something and he's like I'm real David I'm Brittany's like ask me anything and
00:39:52| he's like what are the names of your daughter's yeah and he's like what are their names anything I crack up because I'm like make up two names dude he just goes I'm real real such a good scene
00:40:14| huh yeah antinatalism baby one of my favorites oh what's touch on these guys for a second so we brought him up sure the voluntary human extinction movement v eh e + 2 + unite they're good guys the
00:40:31| environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind hmm a decrease in human population prevent a
00:40:42| significant amount of human caused to suffering they're not wrong so a lot of arguments antinatalism are based on one that makes sense it's a you're very low-income family you
00:40:59| have seven children here I see maybe let's not have an eighth child is not a good idea and part of that makes sense you know what I mean so there's another
00:41:10| part of it that also is like I guess if you were to shift time if you were to go back to like the 1500s it's like if you look back on how horrible life was back then with all the disease and the ways
00:41:21| that they fix people via surgery yeah I was like I wouldn't have a child back then that is terrible oh that's I would normally do I'm not back now yeah but if you're 500 years in the future and they
00:41:35| have all these cures it's like life gets even better than it is now it's like I would say like hell yeah let's make multiple babies for the future if it's fantastic better and worse at the exact
00:41:46| same rate you're comparing now to the like surgery without anesthetics no they can't knock you out they're just gonna saw your leg off like you got shot in the leg you're gonna have to just bite
00:42:03| on this leather strop just dig right in as they grind that thing down with a bone saw all I did figure it out push - shaggy mm-hmm-hmm because at some point pain is
00:42:17| just a feeling it's not even painful do you know thing to consider is they didn't have email blasts they didn't have robo calls no one could GPS where you run your boss wouldn't do any of
00:42:28| that I mean there's so much cool stuff you can do back that - the stars were brighter I'm gonna harp on this thing I'm gonna hark on the surgery part of it so back then they had surgeons surgeons
00:42:41| and barbers were kind of the same because they had sharp implements same exact job a surgeon would be paid well for how quickly he could complete his surgery because of the excruciating pain
00:42:53| that he'd be in so the people I could just find the right cuts and do it more quickly it was yeah the barber was paid for how slow he could go I'll have a yeah you think about it Leah
00:43:10| like shaky hands like a Barbara needs pretty deft hands and you ever think like the the medical symbol with the snake and there's two snakes opposing kind of looks a little bit like the
00:43:23| barber pole when it spins a little bit well the derive from similar similar things are they the colors shifted right in white yeah versus blue white they were the same back then I think it was
00:43:39| like red blue and white has a symbol for like barber slash surgeon you were drunk you better better amble into the right one that's all day I'm just saying you know it wouldn't have a kids back then
00:43:55| that's I would I knew about Milan you'd be pounded we're you'd be going to town pound town you've been there in there done that I have been there I have been to town ladies
00:44:10| so suffering we stopped no you can recover yeah is there a good point for suffering you think there are people you think are people that exist that have a negative life like they just didn't get
00:44:26| at the right cards to start and they never got out of it like there are people with mental disease sure maybe they just like constantly in debt and they can't get out of it and they're
00:44:37| stuck in the same spot with the same shitty people and those people take advantage of that person over and over again and it's kind of like high school when you have bullies except the bullies
00:44:47| live next to you maybe they live in your house there should be a bug yes it does episodes about that hmm all predators probably probably are probably our lives that are negative but I also think it's
00:45:10| weird to call someone else's life and that negative I'll be like hi she was raised in a bad neighborhood she never had any money she was addicted to drugs scheme she eventually died at 31 she of
00:45:20| each had two kids the one she had to give up for adoption and like the other of this her parents were her boyfriend always beat her like it was pretty bad only an old job for like six months at
00:45:29| the time no one knew who the second dad was it's pretty nasty her mom got cancer early she had to live with her but it was really weird well he lived it again it was still but no never really left I
00:45:40| don't think she ever went on vacation I never heard about that anyway she would eat a 31 we're all really sad and I'm like I would imagine that's a shitty life I just made up
00:45:51| right there but I can't judge it either I can't be like I wish that life didn't exist I don't know it was a very human centric element to it that's a single person's life but she might have
00:46:02| influenced other people's lives positively by her story by her living she might further change people's lives and she probably killed I don't know how many chickens do you think someone like
00:46:12| that eats a year interesting derivative chicken nuggets maybe that's frying logic yeah it's a lot of lot of dead chickens so maybe she did leave a bad life and she is a bad person we'd be
00:46:27| better off without her no we're saying yeah I think the grizzly bears and the elephants should have taken over the earth by now but we ate them all mmm have you ever eaten really rare no
00:46:38| actually I have not either I wonder if Joe Rogan has to name-drop yeah they are and I think he I think he described it as delicious but I'm gonna read I ate is
00:47:03| like tough and gamey they serve it at the local place around here everybody goes to and you have to this is the best kicker there's a local place you go to everyone has to go they have hurricanes
00:47:16| there's a two-hour king limit and ringabel every time you get the hurricane and it's all sorts of meat and it's outdoor patio bar good place let's bring em out I think they make you grow
00:47:31| your own food they give you your meat you bring it over to the open flame and it's like community grilling everybody has a grill arrow mm-hmm the French hem this is a version of it's like rec let
00:47:42| correct light is like a central oven slash it's like a broiler slash like a like a stovetop or yeah that's kind of neat with anyway um they have a meat that I've never eaten anywhere else and
00:47:58| it's there Oh alligator sorry um alligator it's like together it was a predator it tastes like meat greasy chicken fried chicken do you think an alligator's happy yeah he poops he eat
00:48:17| things sometimes he talks with him tiny little arms that are rubber to give us your neck oh this wouldn't be so creepy if I was an alligator like a human being there's one that's gonna knock it out of
00:48:34| the park what is happiness worth maybe that's our big problem to maybe think we all want happiness what the hell is it maybe it's just something that distracts you pursuit of had allies the pursuit of
00:48:50| happiness I'm actually having it easy endorphins in your body pumping but is it you removing yourself from life so life does suck and anytime you get something called happiness it's when you
00:49:04| can elevate yourself out of life like finally step back not be alive two seconds and just reflect them by yourself I don't know do an episode unhappy horribly like you'd like dogs
00:49:22| obviously get happy they get excited don't what well oh my god we can do one on the UM I have water tune in the music video no joy versus happiness versus the other
00:49:33| one oh is this some yeah ones that Kenya hell-bent yeah how about Kenneth helmet uh-huh yeah what's to mmm it's no joy and they sell bliss and they sell bliss hmm there's a weird abortion clock
00:49:53| there's an abortion counter number of abortions calm United States today two thousand three hundred eight point three so this is obviously mathematical point three oh yeah yeah a sense of robe
00:50:08| versus why don't know how I care at this [ __ ] is but Roe versus Wade yes 61 million 1973 fifty thousand I don't know us this year after 16 weeks of Gen Jed gestation it's 13,000 almost
00:50:35| that's like pushing it there yeah I figure that's the one that is logically like it's the sounds legal oriented so it makes it sound more reasonable I'll talk about this afterwards but not on
00:50:50| the podcast there's a there's another category man I can tell you I have left of it too much again break it up I have to talk about how I do kid laterz is messed up anyone who just goes to the
00:51:06| patreon they are going to let you see that version especially if you're a potential employer that's messed out yeah alright well what else in antinatalism know what
00:51:21| makes you happy most excited about antinatalism arguing with anti-natal ist's not even because I feel like think eliris they cycle back around till they're like no no you don't get it you
00:51:32| don't understand like the premise is that no we get your [ __ ] premise it's just [ __ ] they're like taking their arguments shoving back their face Billy I can't prove you wrong because you're
00:51:42| gonna lean on stuff that's unprovable nasty with them well I noticed she recently started working out I don't want any trouble I don't know where we go from here Nick and then we covered
00:52:08| almost everything Dan we might have so what did we cover we covered up right suffering oh do we do local versus global I don't know what you mean by that there's a local Tom antinatalism
00:52:24| Jesus Christ is the only word I have to stop and think about before I say it it's so weird it seems so again for them negative value to birth via the UM I think local belief that you should not
00:52:37| procreate etc etc because it's suffering it's all you're gonna bring into the world and more suffering to get parking spots etc Sarah I think there's a global it's not like the universal negative net
00:52:51| effective that effective negative there isn't there is a good argument for this one global anti needle ism cuz you're using so many crops so eating so much food you're creating so much movie set
00:53:04| think of that ruining their addiction or without parents and your oh yes once this actually makes sense yeah I mean you might as well dumped their unwanted children everywhere that
00:53:16| are dying suffering struggling and still taking in crops because the live till three or whatever they're taking their burden on taxes this people etc medical bills you could adopt them not created
00:53:30| another child and you'd be that positive that positive I mean you give that kid life I mean adoption yeah it's a good I think the adoptions a good thing under percent is
00:53:42| it weird to think I don't know that I'd ever adopt if so you and I both have children right why you haven't give singular children I have multiple children's but one kid child so I see
00:54:04| myself in those children and it makes me love them that much more there's the there's a compatibility that you understand that you just feel like they're their doors they are yours you
00:54:15| probably feel that with an adopted child too but I don't think it would be nearly as strong I think I think you're onto something but I think you're over inflating I mean the choice of making a
00:54:32| child versus adopting a child I would make a child because I think it it means more to me I don't know that it necessarily does mean more means more right or means more to the kid at all
00:54:44| obviously it wouldn't you know I know that like trying to create a child and having the intent between you and your significant other to do that is something as well there's something in
00:54:59| the creation process it's like not only the sex but the like that you're on the same page is somebody yeah primordial right yeah no you're right there is something to that the birth etc etc
00:55:15| uh-huh it's you're committed you're in the relationship you're in the experience and the experiences you might miss out on that if you adopt a child when they're like three it's like from
00:55:26| birth to being three there's a lot of stuff in there that you're just like holy [ __ ] a child does that like really old we also skipped over this in the
00:55:38| beginning I said I was pooping in doing my 8 minutes of Solitude you have researching this daddy and researching I was just thinking now people who have children
00:55:51| are kind of so selfish because they're having kids their procreating they're taking up parking spaces they're ruining crops in a way they're taking up more room they're ruining this planet and
00:56:02| you're not wrong but selfish is the worst word for it being a parent is the worst thing in the world you literally pay for your crime ten bolt there's no like someone who doesn't have kids will
00:56:18| never have to pay the price that someone who has children there's no out no there's no out you can't turn off kids you're like and I'm not even trash-talking having kids but I am 200%
00:56:29| to prove my point that having kids is a special it's a thing that you do pay for it's not like I have kids and I'm gonna at fancy parties laughing and joking it up with a martini at you know Nene
00:56:42| driving my Lambo like I had kids and I'm paying for it sir you're not you're not a parent 24/7 you are not cleaning up snot with your hands you're not trying to chase him around the house cuz he's
00:56:56| got poop hanging from his butt like you're not doing anything you got off scot-free you know anything I'm the one paying for my crime your anteye anteye need lists I
00:57:07| am those people have it easy you're a chucklehead I had to have a kid and I'm raising it it's way harder than not having a kid and not raising it remembering the net value is I'm I've
00:57:26| covered it I've covered all that suffering can we feed the [ __ ] about families and kids and all the joy that they bring there's so much what they do I don't they 100% they do but all the
00:57:39| Instagram feeds would tell you the opposite then I think they're the biggest joy and then you see I'll see where I go with this one it's like people understand like the time
00:57:51| commitment and they're like from the time you wake up til the moment we start this pod you literally you have no time to yourself like you're working towards
00:58:03| your goals and if you don't have a job you're with them a hundred percent of the time I like homemakers they if they're watching the kids all day that's like that's a lot of time and if you
00:58:16| have multiple kids they don't all sleep at the same time so they're constantly going they're constantly doing things trying to kill themselves doing stupid [ __ ] it's like can you not hold the
00:58:28| knife on the wrong end of the knife please it's like how did you get that in the first place why would you do that that doesn't make sense from a logic point from a growing up point from
00:58:39| anything you've ever seen anyone else in this house do yeah I agree yeah no I think we'd say hey you dropped the knife in lab so there's there's a whole piece of like it's insanity
00:58:54| there's no no way to control it and then people play it up like it's like some sort of like Fantasyland joyful paradise where like you your kid is the best ever he's so polite oh my goodness it's like
00:59:05| what is this [ __ ] like there's no way that this kid is like oh well like these kids are so fantastically awesome all the time there's no way so I put it this way having a kid is the ultimate peaks
00:59:20| and valleys if you don't have a kid I don't think you'll ever experience the lows of not being able to turn off children the literal worst cleaning up after someone for the nine thousand time
00:59:33| and after your job that you hate and then having that person make the exact same s again and then needing to get them juice and then they don't eat the food you prepped after your full BAE
00:59:49| explained the feelings you get it's the lowest low you're always tired always taxed you can't turn it off as you mentioned before there's no five-minute break I mean there's a five-minute break
00:59:59| but there's no seven-minute break whatever you could lock them in their room that's frowned upon it is but what I will say is you also get the highest highs
01:00:10| yeah it's the peaks and valleys idea yeah my son ran pictures are all just the peaks that's it they take pictures of the piece it's the simple things I was laying on the floor today well
01:00:21| watching TV my son comes up puts a blanket on me I'm like where does this come from I do this to you all the time and you noticed finally when he did it to me I'm like cool I'm gonna you're
01:00:34| gonna do this for a long time now look you're gonna do can I hide some candy and just like be like here's a snickerdoodle well what it is is having kids is the highest of highs and the
01:00:49| lowest of lows yeah it's literally so lonely have kids that's the only thing you don't get it how high the high is and how low that low is and Instagram pictures of children's that the thing
01:00:59| you're discussing is just pictures of the highs it's ignoring the lows no one ever takes pictures of a poopy diaper and like shows that how they got all of her hand are like four days because he
01:01:11| didn't want to poop he pooped bigger than I've ever pooped in my life and he was crying and I was like don't cry dude it's just a poop I was like oh my god that's not gonna flush mine he he didn't
01:01:27| drink anything that was like fibrous or like eat anything that was like you know plant base to it he pooped a barbell of [ __ ] and like the barbell got stuck halfway and literally I was like he's
01:01:39| just like walks in the kitchen and I was like what's wrong with you and he just stood there crying and I was like this is not a normal cry so he like took the diaper off I had to like break that
01:01:53| thing apart and like pull it out as like I gotta have like a little suction to it I was like oh man I'm glass the kids and nobody told you about that yeah but without an insert well I wish a little
01:02:08| chocolate bar bell but yeah with all those negatives comes with positive I guess that's cuz there's the only way you say you get the sour you know yeah there's a net net value of
01:02:27| life whatever that number is I've no clue we all get their new needleless we'll do it without children now and for that I say go for it though if you wouldn't be one I really have no problem
01:02:40| with the whole stance yeah I think we were only attacking it because we have children right and let me ask a little I think we went a little hard on it if everyone decides stop having kids I feel
01:02:53| like that's great fine do it yeah we're also relying on children to like like a how do you like Japan is moving towards the like old age they're relying on children to fill the jobs
01:03:05| that are being left by the old people like old people can't continuously work all the labor jobs so it's like yeah so I want to work at the smelting Factory [Laughter]
01:03:26| no I see were saying but I mean if people really felt strongly about this and without having kids my favorite part is Garry Shandling don't be distracted by the beautiful people there all right
01:03:43| me right I'm dizzy celebrity tell it's when Google provides death is the third he died 2016 marks I only recently he looks like a fish that fell from out of water I guess I can't
01:04:06| say that cuz he's dead he looks like a beautiful fish yeah angelic like a Marlin what's the most beautiful fish it's a Marlin it's the whale shark anyway
01:04:26| trying to see what he died from cancer don't use hyperparathyroidism that's what I got a man's home on a pulmonary embolism that's what gets you an export yeah he suffered from Paris Oh
01:04:46| hyperparathyroidism we've I really from with antinatalism I know I kind of do err well I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe is it's not right if they don't want kids don't have
01:05:01| freaking kids yeah it's like they're coming in my house and saying yeah and why did you have the children no I believe that I satisfied have a problem is it a religion it's anti religious I
01:05:12| think isn't it I think it is anti religious cuz most religions try to have more children so that they can take over more of the population and then read their word you damn well said it give me
01:05:22| the word with anti needless would say we're doing it for religious purposes or whatever I've no idea I assure you I am NOT having children for religious reasons I'll put it in writing and send
01:05:34| it to someone well why don't we cover Nick we talked about the origins of anti name but sank stop we don't talk about sex intercourse talk about assassin 63 that philosopher shark a do vault now he
01:05:56| talked a little bit about whether people should or shouldn't have children check it out our book check it in the Ebates talk to my buddy shirt puberty desire lust love look it's cold it's called
01:06:09| goatee facial had come butt butt chins we just sat in a bus sanitization our grabbing that barbell right out of the middle oh man we we we talked about kids and their poop yeah I'm talking about
01:06:31| kids there's not consumption worst thing in the garbage filthy garbage my friend really did have a baby today shoutout Chris your kid kind of ugly um I can do better next time you picked up
01:06:51| antinatalism yeah I should just set that in there and see cuz he would google it you know to me yeah what's yeah I should right you should have checked out anti-natal as I
01:07:05| might you really put that in there something said that t hope so yeah it was in a group text I guess the other thing that we didn't talk about is like we talk about religions and taking over
01:07:21| the earth if you have more children like part of it is like tribal and if you have a larger tribe you can just attack the other person that says no children are terribly I don't think that really
01:07:30| applies not in today's but like in the past when you're breeding your own army like it's fun more Star Wars yeah Star Wars Clone Wars if you're gonna make a bunch yeah I didn't do that one yet we
01:07:51| talked about all sorts of facts scientific anecdotes labels numbers we gave you guys percentages we did enough for if you're doing this for school and you've been watching this for like over
01:08:04| an hour you've got enough to do the report send him whatever like if you are in high school and you're doing one in anti-natal ism and you pick this podcast wing you're welcome
01:08:16| I'm probably gonna be an English teacher in five years now bribe me grading work teacher I might literally be the kid watching this is English teacher talking my antinatalism right where I'm gonna
01:08:28| just barely read it and grade it like a b-plus nobody argues with a b-plus you know I'm saying mortal is anyway we didn't cover that if everyone in the way instantly died okay we got it
01:08:40| we're good then it's like not force death but accidental death like if you're mortal when you pass away I guess an tiniest think that's like a thumbs up like
01:08:52| yes one less as that cool I'm against and I need a little natural to cost as though as many natural causes as possible like a meteorite or like personal that drove over I guess a
01:09:05| meteorite would be welcome right that's weird that's not a good thing I wonder how they feel about their own death and you're preaching antinatalism you don't
01:09:13| retain me vignette hair but everyone doesn't care about their death until it really happens but let's not go there well we talked about anti needless we talked about judgments we talked about
01:09:22| judges we talked about judge sublimation about the new dread you saw the new dreaded tanker ISM both with a woman you do you have you done seen that not read do you read it no it's six years old
01:09:38| probably six years old distraction isolation isolation it some google it while we're sitting here because you want to bring this up this is antinatalism we're gonna bring it to
01:09:49| a close right here with Dredd movie Dredd okay he goes in the building it's the girl from Game of Thrones is the bad guy I think it's her home why is a drug lord dude it's so good it's like five
01:10:08| years older six years old at this point I'm like stay up and watch it who the hell cares Karl Urban as Judge Dredd yeah I think so I know blue is you're talking about the girl
01:10:17| keep looking there's a bad girl there's like gonna be she's probably fifth on the list or fourth on the list anyway the new Dredd it's a recreation of Judge Dredd everyone watch it I saw that movie
01:10:33| at the exact same time that I saw agent film action movie Pacific Rim no like it's in a drug lords house and all the cops get call it in there and he has to fight his way out oh my god John wick no
01:10:53| no no like it's literally it's a foreign film they're almost identical ones the American version that's based on Judge Dredd the other is not but it's badass as hell it's cool like the rundown crack
01:11:05| Janina Headley yeah is that it yes and mama that's her mama hmm you haven't seen this movie I'm not seeing this movie ah dude you need to see dreaded it encompasses everything
01:11:17| about you know doom 2016 was really good game then he like came out of nowhere it was kind of recreation this is Trent it was the recreation of Judge Dredd came out the same year according video
01:11:30| right like 16 to make 14 times my right maybe no you're a little off couple years well I didn't hear what he's done a long time ago anyway everyone at home check out Dredd check out our socials
01:11:47| check out our patreon donate if you're in my class for English right Judge Dredd on the paper I don't care and behavior b-plus everyone everyone at home just stay
01:11:57| tight we have so many good episodes coming tonight we talked about not having babies anyone at home if your listen to this where your girl don't have babies I don't care if he pours you
01:12:08| that second glass of wine I don't care Barry White's playing don't have babies condoms we didn't even talk about condoms or contraception you should we I mean if you don't have a baby right now
01:12:21| use it that's pretty much all I want to say yeah glad you joined us tonight we like you folks pretty like you a lot can I turn in
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