Transcript of Episode 80 - Serial Killers Murder True Crime
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00:00:00| what if your privacy was invaded what if someone was coming after you and they knew exactly what to do to manipulate you to make you into a victim what if they were serial killer what if
00:00:10| you couldn't get away join us so I'm Dan and I'm Nick books for old friends dissecting one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep
00:00:28| dive in or unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping block baby we don't pander to popular opinion look like you can get a little bit dirty morning this podcast
00:00:42| may contain mature language and sexual content and is for entertainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your earholes [Music]
00:01:06| Oh oh my god what an intro got my heart going really I got nervous about someone's following me this is weird there's usually there's usually two of us mm-hmm are you there's someone
00:01:21| watching us gosh should we have a guest this is crazy somila from antimatter's Oh a podcast we actually did a previous episode with mm-hmm that's awesome repeat guests
00:01:36| uh-huh how do you feel about going back welcome we actually heard you might make a great serial killer expert I mean I would say so I don't know if anybody else would say I don't know how you
00:01:51| heard that on the grapevine well rumors circulating around their troubled past I went out there well don't take any I'll come back to that a little later ship has sailed
00:02:08| so Oh serial killers huh yes that's the big one today huh how does it all begin this is a head injuries were very mother's that's true too so we're actually gonna do one on serial killers
00:02:24| I didn't think this day would come folks but those of you who watch Criminal Minds or a third of the wall in order episodes maybe if we're probably all these great shows that we all love we
00:02:36| all get behind it we all root for the bad guy at least that's what I do it's finally come we're gonna do one on serial killers which by the way does anyone know the actual definition I love
00:02:47| definitions three or more kills right over a period of time I don't know if it specifies how far apart they are it's just two or more two or more stop you're both Riteish and there's no real set
00:03:02| definition it's the weirdest thing it's a person who commits a series of murders usually three or more doesn't say always often with no apparent motive typically following characters
00:03:13| characteristic predictable behavioral pattern that lasts over a over a month okay yeah it's called a cooling down period apparently if you kill like nineteen people in a row
00:03:25| that's a spring you're not a serial killer you're a killer spree guy way less cool Greg way less cool yeah you don't get to go to the club no coffee for you we're
00:03:38| thumbs down in you school shooters which is a real problem and probably a future episode but also we're thumbs down in them don't come to my school or my work but yeah those those are sprees that's
00:03:49| like a little different yeah it's almost it's actually a time word yeah yeah crime of passion yeah I guess I get a crime of passion you're gonna kill like 40 people but
00:03:57| you're mad like that makes sense you're gonna kill 40 people over 40 years not get caught that's terrifying there's something else going on in your brain and I'll get really mad at one
00:04:09| person once a year for 40 years imagine uh sorry Jim this is the last croissant but it looks like it's mine Oh Darryl you're gonna pay just like something at work that happened sparks
00:04:24| it nine months later the floor it's just like I forget who was who but Darryl's dead in nine months that's the thing with Psychopaths though right they they hold grudges like for extended periods
00:04:40| of time I would imagine I mean it for simple things like like you said taking the lobsters on like they log that and they will get their revenge on everyone
00:04:52| they've ever been offended by well there's no way we can know who is ahead of time right there's no like indicator do they wear a sign a special feature yeah they're a t-shirt or something good
00:05:03| they have to wear I go ahead and assume anybody who's like too nice is a psychopath shit mmm I'm like shaking hands with someone they've got like a really big toothy smile I'm like
00:05:14| psychopath that makes sense so they don't choose with black pants that might be a psychopath or just someone who doesn't own brown shoes they'd like to learn to imitate real people people with
00:05:24| emotions right oh that's like that's like the AI test like what's the one word that confuses a is they fail the Turing test when people say shit poop and a killer won't laugh oh
00:05:38| just say it you tell him set it up better you can explain this one it was like what's the one word that throws off an AI when you're doing a Turing test like if you say poop to an
00:05:48| AI and AI will just like acknowledge it doesn't start laughing and cracking up [Laughter] almost like a bad yeah psychopath might not laugh at poop
00:06:03| no no they've trained themselves they're dumb I can't remember his name but there's a neuroscientist who did a bunch of research into psychopathy and so he's looking at brain scans
00:06:18| apparently you can tell if somebody there's like a psychopath gene and you it shows up in brain scan and he had his brain scan and he was just like going through he's like oh that person's a
00:06:28| psychopath and then he looks down and has his name on it and he's like having to reevaluate his life he's like no I guess I am because not all Psychopaths you know our serial killers are
00:06:38| criminals they could be neuroscientists he was he dude did a bunch of TED talks and stuff he has a name that's similar to a famous person's name yeah James Fallon yeah Jimmy Fallon that's awesome
00:06:50| cool I did come across him he um did you did you do the whole talk with him yeah okay cuz like it wasn't like his great-great-great great-great grandfather the first recorded history
00:07:01| matricide I think it was yeah the first person ever kill their own mother Frank I did say it right I don't even know I got that yeah it matches that good I know and it's interesting because
00:07:13| he was just talking about how he was really waiting his life and looking at it differently like he's married he has children and everyone is whole like he went and said like hey guys I'm a
00:07:21| psychopath I'm like yeah that makes sense get it dad we know please don't kill us um but it's the same thing with like like you can grow up and be normal because like a psychopath II is
00:07:33| hereditary but um like you can like it can be fostered or like there was a Cameron Bure her name either but there was a little girl who was adopted by a family yeah I came you know talking
00:07:45| about you know I did come across this too and she ended up being a like a serial killer so it wasn't her upbringing I think we said to one your coconut raid
00:07:54| Thomas yeah but they they got her as a child and they did like therapy with her and she didn't kill you no no I was the opposite
00:08:03| someone got adopted from some like family and she became a serial killer and it was like a regular family and they were like has never happened she has a normal upbringing she has brothers
00:08:11| and sisters we just adopted her and they looked through genealogy and like her great-grandfather was like someone who killed a whole bunch of people and her uncle with someone who's in jail a lot
00:08:19| and everything and they're like oh well maybe it isn't the genes like they're always arguing is it nature versus nurture Adam basically every serial killer ever
00:08:27| right yeah a little bit yeah we don't know we don't know folks now my um my research has me going to this next bullet point okay you have to stay with me gang okay it's
00:08:41| a big job no it's the last of my notes I mean this is it once we do this I'm done the episode kind of you guys were done I don't know if we're gonna keep going and I know if you guys wanted to get into
00:08:49| specifics I just figured I was gonna float it from here on out so so why don't you give me this serial killer actually was a coined term in 1966-67 wasn't used in law until 1974 they were
00:09:06| called mass murderers at the time someone calling the term serial back then and you know they used it like sparingly here and there and like sciency papers and whatever well guess
00:09:17| what my man Wayne Williams started killing people in 1981 the New York Times called it a serial killer and that's where we've kept the word ever since that 81 killing Wayne Wayne Wayne
00:09:29| Williams sounds like a good guy I didn't google his name I can't fit Dan's doing it now I hope he is did you so what about Wayne Williams what made him a serial killer I actually don't
00:09:43| know can you fill me in if my memories boggy suspected of killing 23 people but he was convicted to only two that's usually how it works yeah that's a point even though they
00:09:54| confess to like the most of the people confess some peen or dozens even if they find the these they're like oh we configured him on like a fraction of what he actually
00:10:03| did do it's good yeah yeah there's a guy was just listening to recently I think his name was oddest a stool who confess to over a hundred murders and most of that was just him seeking attention
00:10:18| because he aren't even given the death penalty I don't like five or six he's the one who killed America's Most Wanted son Adam Adam Walsh remember that like though we go the hosts oh yeah oh yeah
00:10:36| he had a son that's why he started all this Adam Walsh went disappeared as a little kid and I didn't know that actually that's crazy see that so that's how America's Most
00:10:45| Wanted started huh revenge it was a dish best served on live TV mmm shutout uh no I guess you're absolutely right it wasn't but we do everything here live at the unban room
00:11:01| so that's why I like to think everyone else has that kind of gusto I don't know that's interesting cuz that makes me think of did you guys watch mind hunter I did that was the first time they tried
00:11:18| to identify the traits of serial killers yeah like they were that's coming up with this idea that people today I think take for granted because there's a character on that show who's um like
00:11:30| tickling children's feet it's not the same guy who like women's shoes - no that's a temper okay this is just like a principal of a school oh yeah yeah and so this guy is going around like they're
00:11:43| hanging kids and candy to tickle their feet did you guys watch the ED Kemper serial killer thing that was just recently on TV okay it was on like oxygen or one of those networks it's not
00:11:55| like a big timer right it's probably like an hour long or whatever so get this my on my sister's son her oldest son he's four or he was it was four at the time he's five ish now he'll be
00:12:06| fighting anyway they um I have a friend in like the showbiz but like not really showbiz like lower showbiz he um he was like do you know a kid who would play as a serial killer like as a
00:12:18| child we got my nephew to do it and he's in the actual show so it's really cool because I think it was ed Kemper and uh he's just supposed to sit in a chair and
00:12:27| like this old timey looking clothes and play with his doll while he looks at like this while his parents are screaming in front of them and then in one other scene he was supposed to like
00:12:35| play with a dead bird or something I was like so that's the beginning of the serial killer look at you serial killer wait wait a way to join the world buddy and he did
00:12:45| get paid the record I'm not allowed to say how much but he does need me big time he's like he could go to Panera for a week straight lunch for him and his mother and and I mean they'd probably be
00:12:55| done after that but a week straight I mean really just gonna write off that notoriety for the rest of his life my girls Hey as a kid man you were good you were real good if it's old-timey
00:13:10| clothes though and I assume that you don't need like 70s is all timing well like I think it was like an overall type thing guys like they would look dated sorry dated not old-time he dated yeah
00:13:22| yeah okay I think old timey I think like AJ tones kind of he was wearing a barrel with suspenders guess what the poor folk did back then but just circle back to sort the
00:13:37| tickling of the feet though is why it was interesting to me because like that today if you hear like some grown-ass man is tickling a little kids feet you're like 1 million eggs I mean really
00:13:48| let's let's check this out is it his kid yeah yeah okay this is someone else it's not normal I can take on my kids other kids feeding them in secret than candy what no that's that oh you're now you're
00:14:03| talking some red flags there the weird part of that show is that they didn't really convict that guy they just kind of forced him into an awkward situation to make him stop right yeah and like and
00:14:14| he was outraged and if other people were like no he's just like a really good guy because at the time those things weren't red flags like we take it wait like I don't wanna take advantage we was sort
00:14:24| of looking for you tickle one owner don't know better yet yeah like and now we're like well duh but then there's like you just the features that you'll do it all send my
00:14:34| kids over there to get tickled I don't want to give them candy that's okay I guess that's a weird thing like I guess some do you think like child molestation stuff or like probably way more rampant
00:14:43| in the 80s rate which is also I'm just surmising it on being unreported because the peak of serial killers they surmise was like the 1980s serial I wonder every day the 1980s really I was like
00:14:59| basically if you lived in the North West well 70s for me getting raped or murdered we're like really high well I think they had a graph I love grants folks it was from the
00:15:11| and the number peaked in the 80s now I don't know if that's the number of serial killings or killers but maybe that's when the notoriety is that its peak but forensics and cameras
00:15:22| everywhere is not you know named it's interesting that you say you have that grab could you said it was like 1981 or something where they were actually defining mass murderers of serial
00:15:31| killers so did they go back retrospectively and say that this was persons a serial killer versus a mess probably that's true and it was the hot word it was the hot item right that I
00:15:41| just mean like most of the cases I do I've heard about where late 60s 70s you know free love free murder kind of thing well fewer evidence fewer technology right yeah and also free because yes
00:15:56| also just better at keeping secrets in the 70s I guess Facebook maybe I don't know but the do you think information easier to kill someone and hide the body in the 1960s than today let's be honest
00:16:09| guys so there's there's one guy Gary Ridgway wears the Green River Killer he's like one of the most not celebrated but he was like one of the highest killers in the 1980s we can't wait this
00:16:25| guy he would he would prey on people that were I guess there there toots there sex workers workers so he picked all killed him and then dumped them on the road and he was um I think he was
00:16:36| like you paint like tractor trailers like he would you like almost like a oh that was his job so he would like dump them in the woods along his route and it was just it
00:16:47| was just bizarre because this guy who was doing that through like 10 or 20 years like he was doing it for a really long time he had like 50 kills and he would married like three women like
00:17:00| those women didn't even know that he was doing this ready we'll just say I need to leave early for some overtime and then killed on the knee in the morning I mean how many yeah it's pretty
00:17:11| horrific and I think that's like like you know he obviously targeted sex workers and that's not he's not unique in that I can't remember the guys name but there's one who was turning sex
00:17:21| workers and then brought him to their pig farm Criminal Minds is an episode on him and feeding them their corpses to pigs it's something that you can do and I
00:17:30| think that's why people call like why we've started calling prostitutes or whatever else you'd like to say best sex workers because it's D stigmatizing and you say prostitutes some people can push
00:17:45| them to the side they're not as important and so like removing that name says that you know it's a genuine employment and maybe that will stop these people from going missing for
00:17:57| years at a time before someone investigates there I mean the two are connected though yeah like the wait is who were connected the weight of killing like 50 women
00:18:07| versus killing 50 prostitutes it's like it's psychological exactly if you say it like that versus you know you just killed 50 women and that's not how they were advertising it though because as a
00:18:20| prostitute right not terminology you are less than it than a regular woman what's it started with the og I Jack the Ripper right we did an entire episode on him mm-hmm
00:18:31| his were ladies of the night correct or or five of them right it's just like hey they're there the weakest link in society they're protected the least you know what I mean so why wouldn't they
00:18:44| prey on them isn't that one of the yet PMO's of these uh serial killers they prey on the weakest whether it's children old people women prostitutes like do any me like they
00:18:56| kind of go for whoever they can and figure they're gonna get away with it the easiest definitely I mean we've got like Ken and Barbie killers Paul Bernardo when he was just known as the
00:19:07| scarf Scarborough rapist he was doing young girls young girls in college she could waiting up bus stops you heard the one that he killed one girl or you know raped one girl um who was locked out of
00:19:20| her home for missing curfew oh that was creepy yeah it's so like like that's a perfect example of someone like who's actually like in the predator mode looking for the weakest people to pick
00:19:32| off so that story was actually interesting because she was out late and then she went home but the door was locked and she didn't want to wake up her parents and she actually called a
00:19:40| friend to say can I stay at your house and the friend said no so she as she was going back to her parents house that's when Paul Bernardo I guess convinced her to come close to him and then I don't
00:19:52| know if he pulled a knife or he just like chloroformed her but he grabbed her just pretty much out of the middle of nowhere it wasn't even that she didn't want to wake up her parents they hadn't
00:20:01| written a note and put it on the outside of the door you miss curfew you're not allowed in there never okay you know you think you're teaching your kid a lesson right perfect and even from like I think
00:20:14| Barnardo's perspective he was doing something else at the time like he was prepping her like murdering somebody else and she walked by and he's like oh hey I'm gonna kill you right now yeah
00:20:25| yeah socks what a champion that was we're getting the more oh I was gonna say individual serial killers sure the last part of my notes was just um general characteristics of serial
00:20:37| killers and I wanted to bring them up because some of them are overstated and some of them are misconceptions should I count sure this is from I believe the FBI and Wikipedia two people I trust
00:20:48| more than anyone else two individual individual friend of mine called up w wiki and I called up FBI both really good friends of the podcast I'm sure they're listening in tonight applies
00:21:02| most serial killers if not all of them exhibit a lot of these qualities psychopathy or mental illness we kind of went over that but we keep saying psychopathy because it's so hard to say
00:21:13| because you want to say psycho happy when you're looking at it and you're doing a podcast that's what I eight times so far I think I've gotten it right every time except where I did that
00:21:21| on purpose no on purpose but can someone fill us in on what psychopathy is versus like by a sociopath ears no I'm not gonna do it it's like it's like it's not psychosis
00:21:39| like a bat right right and I'm trying to I don't 100% know definition that's why I was throwing it at you guys like maybe you guys know maybe you don't so psychopathy is someone make a crack in
00:21:50| it yeah it's a similar they don't have no there aren't emotions they're not reacting to the situation they can yeah they don't require differently in their brain so like this is kind of jumping
00:22:02| the gun but like sexual satisfaction isn't sexual satisfaction in their brain it's like a powerful power like like grind like they need to satisfy something but this is jumping in it's
00:22:15| like is sociopaths they um they withdraw from society they don't know how to fit into society right bitch it fits into like this social consciousness like if you're part of society you accept things
00:22:28| for as they as they are and un poppy I think that was the big one and it was the word I think we're skipping up I don't think sociopath some empathy either I think the difference is
00:22:37| psychopaths are calculated and are like if you look at a psychopath they look probably well put together they can hold a job they can be successful human beings and sociopaths are impulsive
00:22:51| sociopaths are the ones that you see in prison okay someone with like schizophrenia Arizona is usually so psychopath or sociopath depends I mean that's if they're not held together real
00:23:04| well like they look like you can see it all in other people avoid them they like it if you are walking around and you see someone like experiencing homelessness and they're talking to themselves and
00:23:12| they're you know and then they hurt somebody that's more likely to be a sociopath because they they still like black the empathy but a psycho wouldn't they're just more controlled I
00:23:24| think okay the psychopath has there's a term I came across called the mask of sanity I think that's what we're talking about yeah they can make it look like they're normal but they're they're not
00:23:34| they don't actually feel human emotions as we said so another one I came across is they're often abused whether it's physical emotional or mental maybe you touched on something earlier where
00:23:47| they're trying to say that usually a trauma to the prefrontal cortex or orbital area of the brain is almost its present in more than half them like 80% I don't even know what the number was
00:23:59| but it was like a lot and for that to be an effect I was like wow yeah Richard Ramirez Ted Bundy I think there's another Gacy I think all three of them had a major like they fell off a swing
00:24:12| it had it like a serious head injury as a child changes them right there yeah next I had paraphilias which Dan touched on a paraphilia is like um in accordance to know in acquirements to know wanting
00:24:30| to have fetishism yeah a little bit fetishism necrophilia Rd ilysm which is where your sexual satisfaction is tied not to accelerate your sex organs or anything but a part of someone or that
00:24:47| means to control somebody or exert your power yeah yeah there you go so the other thing I came across was the Macdonald triad did you guys hear about this
00:24:57| okay so McDonald triad is one of three things that a lot of these people exhibit serial killers usually fire setting animal abuse or like opening up dissecting and the third one which I
00:25:11| thought was kind of funny bedwetting yeah no long-term bedwetting like you're like 12 oh my god your two-year-old is gonna be a serial killer there's a weird story with one of them I forget which
00:25:30| one it might have been Dahmer we're like he would bed wet until 13 and then his mom would come in and like clean his private parts and like at the age of like 12 and
00:25:44| the end every time hey yeah is weird anger and then like uh what is it Oedipus is like he loves his mom the mother complex right like so he's like attracted and repulsed at the same time
00:25:56| so he can't connect with women at that point is what I read into it and it just spins off into awfulness makes sense I was just gonna keep going because we're probably gonna get real deep into these
00:26:08| but they're often teased bullied or isolated this sounds pretty common pretty make sense I mean they're there shut off from society for one reason or the other they're often they're already
00:26:19| exhibiting the weird things that we just talked about right and children are the most cruel people of all children are all serial killers youths are terrifying yes they are when I see a gang of like
00:26:29| six-year-olds playing games and laughing and calling each other names if I'm walking on the same side street I will cross the street to the other side so they don't roast my old person outfit
00:26:39| I'm terrified some other adult serial killers there but like it's 12 and 13 year olds that like oh yeah I identify what you're in my weakness they know your weakness they start doing
00:26:53| rap battles as you're walking by yeah this is the moms okay this guy's shirt is he's looking at the P the people at them because they keep calling him a pedo
00:27:05| and he can see keep telling himself you'll not a pedo you're not a pedo and all the 12 13 year-olds are saying Pina Pina Pina he's not really trying to get away from me he's looking up and we know
00:27:18| when their plays like a lot of rotten children I wish a wreckage would come through twisted bone and metal muck what are you doing nothing um the other thing that's crazy is the
00:27:31| last that I'll give you is that they all tend to have median IQs mmm 89 was their average score most people think serial killers are like super intelligent and swirl wine in
00:27:44| a glass it tends to not often in their be the fact exact so there might be that suede there other could be genius I'm talking about the median they break it down in different
00:27:55| groups so there's the organized group which is like the more intelligent group who plans and like they plot and they figure things out so they won't get caught and then there's the disorganized
00:28:03| group which is more impulsive so they just kind of get frustrated with something and then kill somebody I like I kind of want to win and those people get caught kind of more readily because
00:28:12| they're not they're not covering things up they're not hiding the body they just kind of like push it to the side and then keep going with their life until they get a con yeah I don't disagree I
00:28:21| mean I don't know what Bundy's IQ is I think his was higher end of average Quebec I think that's why he you know Bundy was the guy who wanted to do his own self defense oh yeah at the window
00:28:36| that's right Bundy had an IQ of 136 that's pretty good all right hey uh Ted if you listen to the podcast shout out how did you do that from beyond the grave but he did die right like he was
00:28:50| electrocuted okay cool I think was he the last meal I heard where he didn't eat it didn't eat them you know yeah I think that because he he didn't want to eat a last meal and I believe if
00:29:02| you don't ask for a last meal to give you a standard its steak eggs hash browns orange juice milk coffee and grits I think I know what state yes all you could say you could get whatever
00:29:18| they wanted and then somebody in Texas ordered a bunch of food and then didn't eat any of it you just get one slice of bacon goodbye Lawrence Russell Brewer was the guy who requested the huge meal
00:29:30| didn't oh that son of a bitch changed everything protected he fucked up ruin it for everyone but but here's my question so like he doesn't eat any of it like he doesn't want to eat he's put
00:29:42| to death all that stuff like do you think like the guard who has to take it's looking at and he's like pretty good pretty good steak when do you throw it in the trash I would he didn't touch
00:29:51| it I would eat it you wouldn't would you no way but he didn't touch it I mean I understand I'm not eating the happy in Bundy steak but like no not even one he didn't he asked
00:30:02| either I mean it's just touched it or I gotta back then it was for him just bad luck that's how you get murdered by a ghost makes sense though my starvation I'm gonna eat that okay that's it guys
00:30:19| this is literally all my notes Oh two more notes 76% of all killers in the United States so shout out the u.s. rep serial killers mega hard and it's one reason and one reason only we pull
00:30:34| ourselves up by our bootstraps those and we will serial kill as we see fit every day every day we don't stop can't stop won't stop it's probably got a lot to do with the Wild West so maybe it didn't
00:30:49| well that's it maybe they just didn't catch their sure killers maybe they know I did not mean the Will Smith movie I know that's where you guys were going I was literally thinking of because it was
00:31:00| like hard to catch crime like the Bonnie and Clyde type stuff well yeah Bonnie and Clyde this definitely that was the depression area and that was interesting because so many people were on their
00:31:10| side until they killed like a bunch of cops and they're really kool aid was cool you know yeah yeah they did like though the Robin Hood theory where they were gonna steal from the rich and give
00:31:24| to the poor and then they didn't give to the bore and everyone's like what wait they are the poor yeah but then they shot a bunch of cops that's yeah that's usually I know guys you know last that
00:31:37| which hopefully leads us somewhere guys percent yeah it's all I got in the United States you know about that I mean I guess it's not unfortunate but the thing is there was more no I I'm
00:31:57| actually but that it's like what like what they do because women women female serial killers are usually out for power or financial gain and so they like the act of killing isn't the thrills again I
00:32:10| mean there's a couple of sexy ones right sexuals know angels of mercy back injecting bring in the back but generally it's like I need insurance money or like my husband's been beating
00:32:26| me and that should be it should be a serial killer if you kill like three husbands over the course like thirty years for like a million bucks exactly the Black Widow deal shouldn't be called
00:32:38| serial killer that's like a whole different category in my opinion but that's that's killing and it's rude it's very rude we should not murder your husband so if
00:32:47| you killed three of your wives you would probably not be a serial killer then you'd be just course of daily just regular business you know you gotta do what you got to do make ends meet people
00:32:57| weren't watching their back that's on them over the ornate third-story railing that we have that's made of gold onto the marble floor below like that's it's gonna happen event I take justice right
00:33:10| there yeah but I'm also interested in the ladies who are interested in oh boy ooh buckle up folks I have a feeling we got a long list of craziness coming in here so this is this is what I just
00:33:27| doesn't make any sense whatsoever people get fixated on a serial killer and regardless of how bad or evil or amoral that person is they still want to sleep with them but not even regardless I'd
00:33:39| say almost because of yeah oh yeah it's definitely because of you talked about like serial killers was it paraphilia yeah these it's not just women because it's men too like this Hybris to philia
00:33:53| which is the idea that you are interested or romantically interested in somebody who's committed some sort of horrific crime good pronunciation by the way is that how all these men get
00:34:02| letters in prison yeah it happens all the time like Charles Manson as like all these like love letters coming to her I'm like who's writing someone in prison the Manson girls - who are they yeah
00:34:15| they were getting letters and like Karla Homolka which we talked about for just a second she ended up marrying her former attorneys brother so she's free has a family with this man who knew all of her
00:34:29| crime seen everything laid out she confessed to it and he's like yeah but she was I called again crimes kind of hi again I was gonna say it but I was like I'm
00:34:43| gonna mess I'm Bristow Julia hell yeah I hope you were high no key word wrists no key word philia so called the bonny incline syndrome ah I did come across that then
00:35:00| okay cool so like it's it's a little bit like celebrity right Joe they're so famous yeah they chop people up they're so famous brothers are both got married in
00:35:10| prison no they killed their parents and just straight up set all the beats what am i married a model why don't man so that's the key that's what I was thinking hmm you need a thing you'll get
00:35:26| a hot woman in the prison I mean what's cursor disclaimer we're not saying you'll be free and everything will be great everything will be pretty free all your
00:35:36| meals will be free and everything else will be pretty great yeah otherwise don't go do you think anybody messes with them in prison if they know they've killed like 50 people like they're after
00:35:50| one crime for ten years you imagine yo Menendez told me to to scram again it's like Oh si he said what and it's like he said get the hell out man I was like did you step to him this time he's like now
00:36:02| it's been eight years I'm not gonna start now someone's gonna start with these guys you can't ride one crime forever I think it depends on the crime I mean
00:36:10| what was it Dahmer was only in prison for two years before someone murdered him yeah with a steel pole I came across oh really yeah it really depends on what you've done like how crazy someone
00:36:20| thinks you are but that one had more to do with disgust and hate did you also hear what the armor did with a lot of his food his prison food yeah so um he was famous for his crimes like I think
00:36:32| he rode that that was a little bit of a power trip friend he would shape the prison food to look like genitals and then sometimes he would make them look like people and he would cover them
00:36:43| ketchup to make it look like he killed like blood and they said that a lot of the inmates thought that was in poor taste whether they really meant that or not they had to be pretty legit like you
00:36:58| imagine he just pointed it you across the way and he made like a wiener out of magic videos and then he started squirting some ketchup on it what can I eat like a guy and he has the reputation
00:37:10| it's not like he's doing it randomly you know this guy really like he might rip off a wiener and eat it you know nummy so I think that I mean I don't know obviously I wasn't like roses them or
00:37:20| anything but it grows with him but it sounds like I think he might have been playing that up because I think Dom's every other and instance that you see him he's just this guy who's he's like
00:37:30| thank God you finally caught me can we can we get into his story the reason being is so before this episode I know I watched Criminal Minds I love serial killer stories like it all whatever but
00:37:41| I'd ever sat down and researched each one to know who was famous for which crimes because in my head serial killer one serial killer did all of these things which is very unkind of makes it
00:37:54| let's do yes it did and it's it's wild so as I'm researching tonight I was like ah telomer did all this one Oh Leatherface did all this one I forgot his real name but let's let's focus on
00:38:06| Dahmer for a second cuz he's a good guy stand up back the Dahmer was the one who was a charismatic and found out he was gay like 14 or no well Owen charismatic he's not ya know Dahmer
00:38:19| was not charismatic in fact like Levi was in high school he had some friends he wasn't like a super loser this thing I don't know if you found it when you were looking at us that was called like
00:38:28| pulling a Dahmer I did I did act like he was having a seizure or having cerebral palsy that's rude I'm pretty sure Nick is on that for the record I don't think I've ever done that but pulling a Dahmer
00:38:42| thought he was like a comedic genius they were like this guy's hilarious and so yeah you got made fun of but not any than anybody else that in high school didn't show up to school drunk a lot
00:38:52| yeah yet is the bureau I was amazing most interesting about Dahmer is like so he had friends who drank with him not as much the same like for the same extent he did his uh pulling a Dahmer Rose and
00:39:07| then he also would dissect and he wasn't like an animal torture he was more into like once they would have no shame but he bring friends out there with him and they would do it with him too
00:39:17| sometimes we got to be social right I was I just mean like how many other people did the same like we're talking about the Macdonald triad how many other people in his friend group met the same
00:39:30| like if you looked at their their childhoods right look exact psychopathy some weird fetishes going on there they're helping them dissect like there's also things red flags you're
00:39:41| saying they have a whole bunch right yeah and so like like I mean you just think about all these people who have the same exact habits but they don't have the psychopathy gene or they didn't
00:39:52| have the same childhood doesn't mean that they can't like have a I would say unnatural curiosity right was he the one whose dad was a chemist yes so that was cool too because he said yeah of course
00:40:10| my son is interested in dead things and dissecting like that's how it scientist brain works and it kind of is right so those would agree yeah and he actually encouraged it because Upton Tilton his
00:40:20| son was like 10 or 11 he was really really a loop and then when he expressed interest in like let's get a giant steel barrel and some caustic soda my son will love this great what's the worst that
00:40:36| can happen now we're gonna know like I don't know how detailed we gotta get into into their crimes versus serve mmm pathology versus what they actually physically did
00:40:51| psychology behind it okay just personally mmm like it was interesting to me like how like as they afterwards they always get diagnosed I mean some of the
00:41:02| beforehand have been in and out of prison and had mental health services but some of them up until they get caught for their murders have going on right so it's interesting to me that
00:41:13| Dahmer and Aileen Wuornos were both diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and on itself like tons and tons of people have BPD and they're not murderers
00:41:27| serial killers yeah um it's just interesting if you've ever investigated that particular mental illness like the the traits are like inability to be alone fear of abandonment unstable
00:41:42| emotions like these are like you would like write down a serial killer traits one two three four it's like a red flag yeah and so it's just and then if you look at their childhoods like we were
00:41:56| talking about head injuries and otherwise you can just draw parallels it's just like in retrospect it's a lot of duh I guess but what's crazy about his and you just mentioned it his fear
00:42:08| of abandonment was yeah hundred percent the whole thing he um he would always um yeah he also again I'm not trying to get two seconds but it wasn't buddy-buddy it is he would be like hey come with me eh
00:42:22| I want to drink with you and have a casual like night and then he would I want to do photos do you look like a great guy you're a model like I said it was like a repressed okay thing like he
00:42:32| didn't think he was he was so he would get these guys back and a lot of times drugging became a thing and I was like wow these guys are drunk and everybody it's like drugging this guy I'm drugging
00:42:42| this guy you're drugging this guy and um he would drug these people and I don't think his intention was necessarily to kill it was to incapacitate these people so that they didn't they couldn't leave
00:42:55| him kind of like disarming them right but the he just didn't he didn't want them to leave him like that was his whole thing he didn't want to be abandoned and
00:43:03| his desires were crazy and a little sick more than ilysm he would drill hole in someone's head he pour water and they were there okay and he had to kill them so the next time he
00:43:16| a hole in someone's head he poured hydrochloric acid in there and they were messed up real bad it was a young kid 14 year old right is this a story product hold on
00:43:26| so the fourteen-year-old left the room because Dahmer was just leaving him he was having his way with them doing his thing having a party he went out to get more beers I believe was his story and
00:43:37| as he was coming back to his own apartment he saw the 14 year old talking to some ladies and the ladies were trying to flag over a cop because he was like
00:43:44| acting funny he was looked like he was drugged it was covered in a little bit of blood and the cop came over and Dahmer was like oh shit shit I got act cool act cool act cool he's like that's
00:43:53| my boyfriend and the cop was like whoa okay then she boyfriend that's normal and then the ladies were like you're not gonna take him you're gonna do anything and he's like oh we just know at the
00:44:04| time I guess cuz like the whole gay stigma he was just like oh I'm gonna mess with those loops let go everything's fine anyway he um took that fourteen-year-old
00:44:12| back and murdered him but wasn't he the one chopped up their bodies and then put them in the bathtub and then like dissolved their flesh yeah he who's he was getting rid of a lot of flesh but he
00:44:24| kept a lot of stuff too he was a trophy come here hands right he would talk to the head do a lot with the heads what I heard again we want to get too graphic on the thing but he was he was a trophy
00:44:37| guy um not a trophy guy and not a guy either is a particularly interesting to me as a serial killer because um I don't have to guess any research on her childhood but it's just like straight
00:44:57| horrific you know like her her dad was in prison and killed himself after you know he hurt people and then she's raped and pregnant by 14 and she's like years old and marries a 70 year old and she's
00:45:11| got alcohol problems of her own and basically like her whole life is just a shit show it's horrific and um the first guy that she kills like and it's her excuse for every person she kills is
00:45:23| that they were trying to rape her and then she had to kill them and I don't know huh I like that she tried to use that excuse on people who were like they were
00:45:33| like ex police officers and lieutenants or something and like this guy is so unlikely to do that and she still shot them like six or seven times that first guy she actually did kill was a
00:45:50| convicted rapist it's easy to sell that story and she probably got off line got away boy I wonder if the first time it happened it was real right and then to kill him but like I said the guy was a
00:46:03| convicted rapist I don't I don't know for sure I I do believe this woman suffered from PTSD so yes she was killing to rob them so that she could support her and her girlfriend and their
00:46:13| drug and alcohol problems and you know all of that stuff I'm not saying that any of it's okay but I wonder if the first one might have been actually an attempted rape
00:46:23| victimization part of it was like that's weird yeah the first time around maybe she was defending herself and then there's a mental stigma that sticks after that
00:46:33| maybe that happens once and you just can't deal with it and your reaction is to fight back and kill I can see that happening for like the first time and then persisting until you resolve that
00:46:46| issue but for like Aileen Wuornos she never got out of that state she just kept killing anybody who came nearer its change and she kept looking for it like they say that the reason why her defense
00:46:57| doesn't work is she had like essentially a kill bag you know like if she was just hitchhiking or looking to do sex work why did you have a gun man like Windex and all of the stuff in your bag okay
00:47:11| it's because you were looking to kill somebody I'd be prepared right yeah yeah you never know he was a girl's killer you got a yeah yeah be prepared got to what's fun is really interesting
00:47:23| even afterwards because when she goes into prison some like woman who's only like basically sells her story well like her trials happening so there's like a made-for-tv movie that's happening while
00:47:37| it's happening they're making all this money off of her it's just really terrible with this idea is this woman are Leonardo's also had support line
00:47:45| personality disorder so she's looking for someone to stay with her and take care of her and so they they use that in some say that maybe she didn't have a fair trial because although the whole
00:47:57| thing going on right mmm and then they abandon her when she stopped doing interviews because she didn't want them making money off of her and I don't know if you guys heard any of the like court
00:48:09| proceedings with her in it where she's like telling everybody she hopes they get raped and actually that's one of the things that really when you hear about some serial killers being prosecuted and
00:48:21| we have to decide whether or not they're sane right yeah or fitness day on trial and I don't think that she was and the idea that you could say that she was means like maybe you have a loose grip
00:48:32| on what that'll help it so the only definition I've read about it was that if you're unable to actually like converse with your counsel you're insane like you can't help your
00:48:44| counsel help you then there's nothing you can do you can't stay in trial yeah well that's I think fit to stand trial but the the mental health one is you have to be able to like whether or
00:48:55| not you're saying is whether or not you can see that the crimes you did were illegal or meanness in some way so like there's a guy um I think they called him like a vampire killer who was he thought
00:49:07| that in order to survive he needs to drink the blood of victims so he just like walked around a neighborhood and opened any door that was open and went in and killed them and like disemboweled
00:49:15| them and did all these terrible things like that guy was actually insane he was just like out of this Gordon could not tell you that this was a bad choice where like Eleanor nose would hide a
00:49:26| body steal a car do her best to cover her tracks and that's how they decide whether or not it's saying but I think it's more I think it I think honestly I
00:49:34| think it needs to be better defined does mental hoping that something's wrong does it mean that you were in control of your actions at the time now the mental health system is terrible especially
00:49:47| legally speaking did you have something in your notes about declaring insanity versus not declaring insanity or maybe they would sure notes I apologize you know what do you add it in your nose
00:50:00| don't know that it's actually definable I know that it's been increasing slightly over the years but I I don't know that there's a clear definition of whether you're insane or not it takes
00:50:10| like you can't say borderline personality disorder maybe do this right but but you have to take that into consideration correct but not when you're talking
00:50:19| about whether or not you're insane I think basic I mean I might be a little off-kilter here but I do think it is whether or not you can see your crime like can you understand the first good
00:50:31| versus bad and if you can say okay yeah I made I killed somebody and I shouldn't have then they're able to say old and you're saying yeah there's like a methodical nasarah serial killers if
00:50:42| they could figure out how to execute the crimes that they did then there's almost no way that they were insane because they were logically processing the event and figuring out how to avoid being
00:50:54| detected my argument with that is if you're able to like plan strategically and like plan to murder and then like put bodies and disembowel solve them then like maybe you're a little crazy
00:51:08| this is what I'm gonna say to you guys which is exactly kind of the crux of the whole serial killer thing I've loved hearing about circulars I love reading their stories like it's fascinating to
00:51:20| me because it's not there's something missing in their logic like there seems to be a step that I can't even fathom like I think like they do I perceive the world like they do as far as physically
00:51:33| I understand warmth I understand another person is talking to me I understand it's raining today but there's something so bizarrely different about someone who can justify killing more than one people
00:51:44| and dissolving the body and like doing things with bones and stuff so it's it's it's like crazy to me so this is it any serial killer is insane to me there's like almost I'm gonna highlight a
00:51:58| portion of then because like if so the way I see so a killer is like he goes out on a date and then he gets romantic and it starts to get physical and like as a normal guy you just kind of like
00:52:09| become romantic passionate but a serial killer just spins that completely and doesn't have any of that romance no passion whatsoever and he just starts to kill so
00:52:18| it's it's like a violence that happens at the point where you're supposed to be connected with somebody except they disconnect they decide not to be in that situation with that person
00:52:28| then they they just lit they thrive on that like the power the the sense of destroying somebody else I think I also like to think of serial killers as
00:52:39| addicts and the like if you are suffering from an addiction you're going to do crazy things and then just by it I also use crazy I know it's pejorative so know that I'm just like being flippant
00:52:51| um but you do like things that you could never imagine like you hear like drug addicts do like nuts of things and they can they have reasons for them and they change their whole life in order to
00:53:03| continue to feed their addiction at that saying I say saying because I think big addictions also a mental illness that same people wouldn't do um like eating a person's face in Florida what huh like
00:53:17| eating that guy's face there's like guy who ate that guy's face table and he's on crocodile if you're on crocodile you guys understand it's just a thing that happens move over here in Florida know
00:53:26| what you're touching on though is also important because it also it emphasizes escalation these serial killers often escalate almost every story starts with I did something by accident to a friend
00:53:39| or I did something to a woman on a crazy whim and it gets more violent more calculated you need it more escalated yeah which is very much like the drug addiction thing you know the story there
00:53:51| is that like they will focus on someone who's like younger and then move to someone who's older they'll have like let go after women and then I forget who it was but they started going after
00:54:01| couples and then forcing couples to do a golden it might when the goals date killer yeah home state yeah he was just he started off as a burglar and a rapist and then he was focusing on couples and
00:54:14| then started murdering yeah the escalation escalation he would stack plates on their backs on the man's back and said if if you move I'm going to hear the plates move and then
00:54:24| bad things are gonna happen and then he would do whatever he wanted to and he'd like go quiet for a while to see if they would like start reacting and they'd like show up again 30 minutes
00:54:33| later and they'd be like they wouldn't know what the other 30 minutes is a long goddamn yeah and he'd call I think there was a call that he made like 20 years after he had raped a woman and he said
00:54:46| hey remember when we played oh my god I'm gonna hark on this one cuz this I mean this is a little this is some one awkward question but like in your in your life is there are there moments
00:55:02| when you feel vulnerable nice lead the FET as as a man there's only a couple times in my life where I felt like I was vulnerable and here's one example so I dropped somebody off at a bus
00:55:11| station I pulled in I made sure that they were okay when I was waiting there there were two guys who were obviously druggies came up behind my car at the same time one guy knocked on my window
00:55:24| another guy was looking from my right side and one guy asked for money and I didn't I couldn't tell what the other guy was doing because I couldn't look both ways I ended up giving like the one
00:55:33| guy dollar and he went away and left me alone that was when I felt the most vulnerable because that other guy could have done anything to smash in my car and jump me as a man you're not really
00:55:45| that vulnerable in general because you're strong enough to maybe put up a fight I think that's changing a little bit with more technology and guns and all sorts of stuff but as a woman
00:55:54| there's probably more moments where you feel like this could probably end badly yeah I mean I mean not even that dramatic I think what happens is like our parents and media and everybody
00:56:07| trains you that honestly if someone gives me a compliment like even that even just like a basic competent at no compliment and I know I'm like a little sensitive but if you are you look a
00:56:18| little bedraggled and you're making intense eye contact and you say you're a pretty girl I'm freaked out like like you do the the keys in your fist thing yeah that's so funny most guys don't
00:56:31| even know about this women like are just trained this is another one do you check your car when you get yeah I'd make this is so crazy so guys guys take this for granted you get into
00:56:45| your car late at night if it's in a parking lot or something to make sure you're not followed you have to look in your car I don't have to yeah yeah that's another thing like guys don't
00:56:55| even think of this it's a very guide dog it's a common thing exactly I usually don't until I've heard a lot of these stories now I'm like I'm like that's crazy the other day I got in my
00:57:04| Jeep I was like you think you went in here no no was in there and no no one thinks I'm not attractive like I think they think I'm sort of that attractive not that it's not worth it the other
00:57:14| thing is like women are told like put your keys between each like this so that like if someone comes at you you can at least hit them I used to do you everything good I can I'm sorry no I was
00:57:25| asking Dan if you ever thought of it cuz clearly I've never thought about it yeah it's never had to do that oh the point isn't that you have to do it it's a little bit like African Americans get
00:57:35| pulled over by a cop like they're told by their parents at an early age there's like a talk that they give it's like just literally son don't mess with this it's I usually talk with guys so you
00:57:49| keep your hands here because you make a sudden movement hey I'm gonna get my stuff over here you can literally get shot you have to respond to their bias by being right oh
00:57:58| really courteous right which is a little mess it's not a little messed up it's messed up but regardless it's something that you take for granted and something you
00:58:06| don't really think of and it's it's super casual things and I think one of my most recent experiences and this is just something on the internet which isn't even like a personal thing like a
00:58:16| physical person thing I someone messaged me I got a message request and I accepted it and they just said hi and then I said hi back and then I got a dick pic time Wow that's another thing
00:58:31| and that was one way to do that but then the next time someone randomly messaged me I like tried to like figure out like oh hi how do I know you and they were like oh I don't you're just a person and
00:58:42| blah blah blah and so they gave me a compliment and I made sure to say thank you because I didn't want to dick Vic I didn't want them to be mean to me so I said thank you and then they
00:58:51| followed up with so do you live alone but I'm like yeah that's not and and so this is just like Internet safety but that's pretty much every interaction you have with a person
00:59:03| I think women are just on guard with like okay they're being nice to me okay I'll be nice back to them can you can you give us an honest opinion how many I mean pic pics have you gotten obviously
00:59:12| unsolicited in my life too many doesn't I think okay I didn't know I don't yeah it's a guy it's completely like a it's a foreign concept to think that that happens all the time because guys
00:59:29| probably are wishing for like a vagina pic but that's not a thing hi they're typing they're typing come on do it do it but no I I actually don't know that I've ever roofer Oh vagina pic yeah but
00:59:48| anyway do we do it she's gonna shoot she's gonna shoot a clam over here we got sidetracked oh yeah yeah yeah but it shows the vulnerability as like as as a man right you're you have physical
01:00:03| strength and women don't have that and it's you mean it's impairing a man to a woman's strength is completely different like there's no situation where you're actually understanding the difference
01:00:15| between this like the a man's strength and women strength yeah and you're talking about physical strength but then there's also the you know political like societal norms that go with it and so
01:00:26| even if like you hear plenty of instances where someone doesn't report crime because they're afraid of not like you know something terrible happen to them but reporting it well they're not
01:00:37| going to believe the things that go into it like these we have all these rape kits but I think honestly even rape kits in themselves are really intrusive like after someone's assaulted you you're so
01:00:47| sore the hospital and be like they do they swab everything and so the idea that you would even do that and then you haven't kits that are sitting for years and some sort of backlog we've got
01:00:57| hundreds and thousands of untested rape kits and it's just like after being violated you get violated again and so you get white people want to report it and ask violated
01:01:07| questions and then ask there's I think there's a certain way they ask the question to make sure you're not to blame yep like are you sure you didn't say yes four times what were you wearing
01:01:18| when this happened is that that they already feel like and women do it to themselves before they even get the questions at us you know it's a no-go but this brings us back to serial
01:01:31| killers guys don't talk about the Golden State killer how he was eventually caught because this kind of feeds into that that is interesting it's crazy interesting I was reading
01:01:41| this book called I'll be gone in the dark by Michelle McNamara that was published she died before it got published so they kind of had to piece it together big fan of the podcast big
01:01:53| fan of hot guys she was before she passed and so nope with many I apologize um but so yeah she died and they her husband who's Patton Oswalt had it polished up
01:02:15| that's so cool I know yeah and and then it was released him in several months later they caught him in exactly the way that she said that they would which was from through
01:02:25| familial DNA but it wasn't 23andme it was some other website that has less secure data collection I guess so also for the record because I originally when I heard this story I thought that he
01:02:40| filled out a 23andme or a subsidary and then they just like really hey idiot we got you we got your DNA you just match it up so that wasn't the story I just found out today so bring it down
01:02:50| California right and then California in the 2004 estranged they started they devoted for prop 69 which is for any any felon I believe they were collecting DNA for so anybody who committed a crime
01:03:05| they had this giant database and then also there's something called the CODIS which is like a national database of DNA for criminals yeah I don't know how like he committed a crime prior maybe I
01:03:21| didn't read into this part though oh I I thought it was something else did you read familial yeah but how did they live I guess they knew they knew they had DNA from from what from all the
01:03:33| rapes he committed no I can call his relatives it was I think that his relatives they gave me way a great deal of detective work that they had to do so yeah they got it through one of his
01:03:45| relatives but then they had let's say then they compared the DNA to who this was so they had this DNA they said this is a match okay so this is a third cousin match to the Golden State killer
01:03:58| and then they had to say okay now let's look at all of these other possible you know like people that are connected to this guy well this guy wasn't even in the area at this time this guy's too
01:04:06| young this guy's too old and then they really Co it's him but they had to do like detective work after they thought that DNA evidence yeah did you did you catch 30 years literally his relatives
01:04:15| were taking these tests and sending in their DNA or or being convicted about the crimes I guess I didn't consider that but they were getting DNA from all these people who had his DNA familial it
01:04:26| was very similar to his like they could tell whether it was this is almost perfect match this is like an uncle or a great relative of his this has to be one family tree removed from the guy who did
01:04:37| all these crimes and they started piecing together all these pieces around him using that DNA and finally they were like well this guy fits the bill pretty good and I think they at that point they
01:04:48| had to find other stuff on him and physical evidence but it really pointed them right to him I can't remember but I feel like they actually got a piece of his DNA like Oh today after they had
01:05:01| narrowed it down to him they're like oh don't mind if I do rummage through your garbage and take out some yeah I'm but I mean it's like what did you was he in a camellia he
01:05:12| didn't I don't know if this guy was in a necrophiliac or not I don't think you weddings I didn't catch that yeah which oddly enough there's a stat in one of the boys records is that if
01:05:22| you're more intelligent Rutgers study you're more likely to commit Nick freely I just want to add of that little fact wait intelligence is more likely to yeah if you're more intelligence if you're
01:05:32| more intelligent than you on the fact that you killed somebody therefore you're willing to go back because you are not you know you know you're not trying to avoid the scene
01:05:41| you're thinking about it so the more intelligent people will go back and then that's Bundy yeah and they um what was the the first kind of Krampus name I lost him
01:05:54| he's going anyway green rivers drop green or killer no the Green River guy yeah yeah yeah um real quick on that same marker studied they figured out in the United
01:06:05| States at least how serial killers kill their victims number one folks done I'm 43 percent correct number two they don't want to take a guess what is it I say it's like
01:06:18| bludgeoning poison triangulation the old behind that we got 14.8% stabbed I can serial kill with this I'm not gonna folks a little word for the wise 14% next up bludgeon you're right nine
01:06:47| percent you ever see a serial killer Kelso would have her check the Internet what's 7.2% last one we're gonna go into cuz a lot of the rest are like one percenters hmm actually the story is rat
01:07:09| poison so that's interesting interesting I didn't know that mmm-hmm well there you go two birds one stone can you be a serial killer P if the third person you kill is yourself
01:07:20| probably not mmm-hmm I got it no no cooling-off period there that's the problem so our are we psychopathic we all took a test right I think it was that we dare
01:07:35| psychopathic II sorry yeah I definitely I didn't get a hundred so it's nobody oh yeah it's over over thirty psychopathic tests I have thirty [Music]
01:07:46| oh my god it was only like 85% of people are actually psychopathic and I scored pretty low which is I thought strange because I'm very non empathic so I scored lower than Nick actually 11 that
01:08:03| I'm a bit I scored 12 folks I got 10 oh wow actually makes sense when you think about it did everything make sense in retrospect you know I mean I literally
01:08:17| just got just done dissecting the dog that passed a couple months ago not really so wait did you guys have friends who took the test yeah and I gave it to all of my friends we're pretty close
01:08:35| like something like the guys are on the show I got a twenty nine and a half like I did the show we've got like an eight or nine but my boy forgot our 26 and I'm thinking yeah my talk oh yeah worried he
01:08:52| also had a head injury so I'm just concerned no it's all going to into the record write it down in that scene Rutgers DNA markers daddy can you collect any those serial killers
01:09:15| what do they kill for the this is the Rutgers study number one we think it is guys control 31.8% uh they actually group this with something else which is a more general term enjoyment oh god do
01:09:37| you know what number two was which I was a little surprised little black widow action here okay 30.1% kill her financial game that even considered serial killing at that point nothing
01:09:48| like CEOs or like the CEO son or like you know like whatever like to get ahead in your job is it fun I mean it's still considered for gain but what yes Vanessa a killer killed every dude she
01:10:03| ever went with yeah see it like overlapping life insurance policies her husband and she's like Oh jackpot once every 20 years they slaughter let's get that cash that's a cooling-off
01:10:15| period folks yeah anger meet up the third one multiple Wow more than one gang activity made up six with the FBI because they claimed that if you're killing people for a gang
01:10:30| membership it's not considered serial killing some people said it was some said it wasn't it really depends you're trying to get notoriety and move ahead in the ranks it would be like our Mafia
01:10:41| killer is considered serial killers they kill a dying people I don't think so we don't let your crime junkie and I don't care about the Mafia and I don't care about gang violence I
01:10:55| agree epidemics of large terrible proportion but also we don't care about it for a second like accomplices like the a Bernardo and oh come on come on I can't say that
01:11:17| that's close enough so she was kind of convinced by Paul to do all these awful things even to her own sister so a lot of her the deaths involved in our murders I'll say involved in like the
01:11:30| both of them killing or like chloroform related like they didn't know how to control how to knock somebody out so they killed them but in the end they put the blame mostly on Bernardo and the
01:11:43| woman was only convicted of like very few years because they didn't blame the woman in it good numbers I think she only got charged with the manslaughter of her sister and it was manslaughter
01:11:55| because they said it was accidental man's laughter as we say here mainly meant to rape her and the tapes that they had recording what would have Carla's participation were withheld by
01:12:11| all attorney and then destroyed yeah well they were destroyed in around 2001 because the judge thought that they'd at least to the Internet like they were
01:12:23| afraid the Basement Tapes would so around the same time they were just like merging all of these videos on oh yeah is it common practice today I don't think so today like digital
01:12:34| evidence is crazy right we're like the Patriots in Super Bowl 41 know better yeah it's just the Eagles know they lost they lost another one we lost oh yeah Spygate
01:12:51| they had the tapes destroyed I still don't know why he did that like he could have just said no no one needs to see it no big deal it's over but instead he had the tapes destroyed
01:13:02| I'm sure the NFL how weird is that right we're gonna get into that Spygate is real anyway the the problem has been justified this past year there's a rematch and we all know how that ended I
01:13:14| thought you were talking about Karla Homolka there was a rematch was we going she survived but something I think that you guys might find interesting about Karla
01:13:29| Homolka after she was released she only spent 12 years in jail again so she was released probably in her early 40s I she struck a plea bargain on one yeah I guess the other guy but do
01:13:40| you guys um know about Luka Magnotta no so he was a he's Canadian and he killed somebody on like the internet live what and yeah I had he was he was doing like more and more like back when like
01:13:57| getting it was kind of new and had like those Gore websites everywhere like rotten calm and all that kind of mess well he was trying to make himself famous he'd applied to all these reality
01:14:07| TV shows on all the stuff and he's known for he killed a man and then raped his corpse live streamed it Wow but he said that he was like dating Karla Homolka and she was like boy you crazy no I'm
01:14:24| not but it's just interesting that he was trying to tie him to her before he had committed this crime and it's just a weird like double connection the serial killer like
01:14:35| everyone swaps to somebody else for some awful deed so real quick there's a so the sentencing of Mike men and women like overall there's a very gender bias against men or any like similar crimes
01:14:51| they give women 20% reduced sentences compared to men so not 20% more salary correct correct reduce anything so there's I mean men are obviously more violent they're more
01:15:09| prevalent more sexually disturbed but if you're having the same crime committed why do you think that women are being given reduced sentences and even like serial killers serial killers who get
01:15:22| out like why would you ever let a serial killer like into public again like it's not like they're weaker they might be older physically weaker but they're still capable a lot of these numbers I
01:15:35| was going to say I saw were like way lower than I thought they should be for every serial killer he got 38 years I was like he boiled like nine people yeah let's give this guy a hundred lashes
01:15:45| right now I don't care what kind of plea deal right you only got tried for two of them so it's two right but as far as the women get a new lesser sentence that's a thing
01:15:57| that um I think that women are dangerous time they are very scary but you guys blood count about Ruth Ruth Bader Ginsburg she's making fun of her yeah she listens to the podcast personal
01:16:12| friends of the podcast RB gene uh-huh got the Supreme Court I listened to her a million years ago because in a camber what state it was but basically the drinking limit for females was different
01:16:27| than male because they assumed that women were more responsible so they were like okay women can buy alcohol at 18 but men can't buy until they're 21 so that just meant that members were buying
01:16:37| alcohol for men and that was a thing what she said was this is inherently an injustice because you're saying and the way to fight that was to say because she was
01:16:48| for women's equality saying that this was unfair to men and it basically it's time and again we see women are supposed to be the more docile or sensitive the less capable the less violent sex and
01:17:00| it's just not true I mean I guess statistically yes but I mean not to the point where you could not serve a life sentence for murdering somebody but that's it's across the board not just
01:17:13| with murder but with anything we just assume women are as capable we underestimate them in every way even when it comes to fitting frame I don't underestimate them in crime yeah
01:17:26| I can't wait til one steals my car and wraps it around a pole and I go pin I was wrong way wrong that was so hot like a bad you just wrecked that man I wish I could see I mean you never know
01:17:40| as far as rehabilitation goes I mean the idea is like that's that's how we said our prison system up like that's not like if we say you're you did this crime you get 40 years that's just we assume
01:17:55| that sending somebody away to prison is supposed to rehabilitate them it's like a whole episode as far as right you don't I mean like we can get into rehabilitation isn't really
01:18:04| rehabilitation the crime rate isn't really the crime rate the justice system is not rigged well it is rigged but there's other things to talk about right I know I'm centigrade here's a question
01:18:15| for you guys it's more personal more weird more kind of how I wanted to go towards the end so they did all these Studies on the physical science and the mental brain scans that show psychopathy
01:18:29| family history all these signs that might say hey this person's liable to be a serial killer let's say they go even further by 2025 right they actually know by looking at a brain scan if you're a
01:18:44| serial killer or not what should they do to someone who hasn't committed any crimes but is verifiably has all the signs had a head injury to certain age and it's he's your cousin oh it is
01:18:59| Minority Report you're a little bit right yeah like what if we're do we stand on that so I think that some people have this psychotic psychopathy and it first person to mess it up I love
01:19:12| it so they like it helps them like if you're a doctor and you honestly you're not emotionally connected to your patient that's a good thing because then you can focus our surgeries yes you can
01:19:23| focus on the mechanical portions of like providing healthcare to somebody you're not emotionally connected to whether they survive or not you don't care about them do you think they're a piece of
01:19:33| meat and you're cutting them that's interesting which is someone with high psychotic you would say that yeah but it helps I mean it helps in certain situations it just doesn't help good
01:19:44| person deciding to cook other people say it could help we're not gonna say it helps it could help can we tell you performing surgery yeah there's lots of heartfelt surgeons who love their
01:19:55| patients like a varied and fine job yeah mm-hmm shedding a tear with her what would you do if you found that you had a high-risk move to the country variable yeah bury them very deep I mean I think
01:20:10| that's exactly it I mean that's why we when we talked we were talking about James Fallon like he lived his whole life just feeling these feelings and then when he found out he was like oh
01:20:19| but he doesn't mean that he felt any desire to hurt anybody hmm he still learned that what was right and what's wrong somehow that was still related to him and he got it whether or
01:20:31| not he was like this is right this is wrong but doing the wrong thing feels good and doing the good thing feels nothing you know like he just was he luckily grew up in a life that reinforce
01:20:42| positive behavior so Amelia you're saying all the research done all everything done will never be actually be able to tell who is going to be a serial killer correct I don't think so
01:20:52| so then why is that why bother I bother doing the research yeah um for the same reason that we want to know anybody friends why do you make human connection I mean once you find out I think it's
01:21:05| after the fact I mean and we can we get somebody there counseling with the ideas we don't like to diagnose children of psychopaths they have a specific name for it but there's
01:21:16| a way to help them grow and to not be you know terrible people when they grow up and if there's something to learn from somebody who's done something awful I think that we should take that
01:21:27| opportunity I don't disagree with any of that do you think we could redeem any of these people we were just talking about today whether it's the that the soap the human fat soap woman was her name Anna
01:21:41| didn't come across her I read about her I don't know where her name was though yeah she would um kill people she had 17 kids on four of them made a pass age four so she had a terrible life she
01:21:53| believed she was cursed she believed that her favorite son the one who lived to be the oldest he was like seven or eight for him to keep surviving sure to keep killing people whether it's because
01:22:04| they were like the principal at his school or whatever I didn't get into all the details she had to kill them to get rid of the body she would boil it and the superhot cauldron and then human fat
01:22:14| would rise to the top and she would turn them into soap and give them to her family and friends and then eventually there was so much stuff left over she would get a little bit of curl blood and
01:22:25| stuff and turn it into cakes I'm reading it to people oh yeah her kid she's like no no it's fine my kid and I had something else was gone I don't know it in that particular instance of lipid
01:22:40| exchange that's that's the most extreme right yeah um I don't know I don't know if I'm when you say redeem I don't think like any I mean the only people who can forgive them are their victims and their
01:22:51| families and so that's not possible but as far as rehabilitate I don't think in their current system no thinks the level of mental healthcare that would go into helping somebody be a functional human
01:23:04| being in society is something that we're not at and I can't recommend and also there's I think there's only so much you can do when someone becomes an adult so it has to be done early on so I think
01:23:15| the intervention period is passed okay so if we find out like that you're a psychopath and a serial killer it's too late we're going to have to give up on you
01:23:25| well don't kill me I don't believe in the death penalty you just put me away we just put you away for a while yeah can be like okay yeah three star three star hotel yeah that's fine so I can lie
01:23:41| down here yeah let's recap what we talked about I remember like torture and brutal killers serial killers I'll try it good friends are listen on the podcast
01:23:56| proposition 69 the CODIS I remember the CODIS yeah the DNA index system we talked about the prototype theory by Eleanor Rosch if you guys remember I wrote in my notes maybe I
01:24:10| didn't bring it up but that's fine we talked about it the FBI and Wikipedia we talked about both of them the media's obsession what's your crime they do they love it
01:24:26| so do we though I think there's a reason if we were to sum it up there's a reason we love this stuff right do you know what I thought about while watching all these videos there's
01:24:35| a reason you you and you I'm pointing in the direction you guys might be in there you all love this stuff because it's a little bit fantasy we play out where what will we do there were no rules and
01:24:49| we didn't care about people and there was god mode on and no one really got hurt in the end but we could do whatever for a little bit that is not why I watched this but then why do you watch
01:24:59| us I'm serious like honestly I am obsessed with like how people respond to things I'm just so interested in normal psychology like shut me Mar but you were all born as
01:25:10| babies and then we all went on very different paths and different things happen to ashore but like you know some somebody can have the exact same thing someone else might have been raped and
01:25:19| tortured and got pregnant at 14 and they didn't end up killing seven then what is the difference there I'm fascinated so what do you think it is I don't believe in evil so I think it has to be
01:25:32| situation a mix between situation and hmm I don't believe in genetics see the very opposite of what you just say I think there's no way my DNA would all scramble one way and I would say you're
01:25:46| gonna turn out to be X and I will turn out to be X I think everyone's varying control their own destiny whether you're pointed in one direction more than the other or you have
01:25:54| percentage points I you could argue all day I sure but I think ultimately I don't care what your DNA says I think people who who exhibit what we talked about there's something about them
01:26:06| that's either missing or extra and I don't know what it is and it fascinates me and I'm drawn to it and I want to know what they're thinking and a little little little part of me wonders if
01:26:17| they're just like f it what if there are no rules what if there's no heaven what there's no hell what if I'm just gonna do whatever the flying F I want by the
01:26:26| winds of my lust or my fancy or whatever my desire is and this is ultimately what what happens when we take away society and rules and this is what people would turn out to be not that they're heroes
01:26:40| or anything but they're yeah they're beyond the chains of the things I hold myself to I hold myself to the rules other people's feelings other people's emotions I'm not a sociopath but what is
01:26:55| the importance of that the continued success of the species good for me so sociopaths don't care about the continued success of the species I don't know fascinates me yeah it covers that
01:27:12| yeah well we do yeah wrap this up you have a favorite serial killer mm-hmm I think favorite not like again like you're gonna write letters or send your panties I just mean like you and have
01:27:27| you ever sent your panties do it through no I keep my panties to myself I can imagine that like if there's somebody that's like so methodical if they can out with the police and like they cover
01:27:40| up all the tracks there's something I wouldn't I don't know about sexy about that Oh Danny I would say stinker Dan loves a sexy over-thinker yeah it's sexy - yes I know it is yeah
01:27:50| outwitting somebody is is intellectually stimulating intellectually stimulating he's going sexy I'm gonna buy her that you got I know she's got someone in mind Oh me um I mean I I think I I like
01:28:10| oscillate between um it sounds cliche but Fundy is just like so interesting you've got so much levels and his story but off going between him and Dahmer I think I'm gonna be a basic serial
01:28:25| killer fan and just say between yeah I was going with Dahmer Dahmer's but I think I think the reason why Dahmer is appealing because he just seems so remorseful and fat and and bunny is the
01:28:39| opposite reason why I'm interested in him is because he's just like what I'm amazing and better than everybody and that's why I'm doing this I think that's also equally interesting it is one can
01:28:51| be that wildly different so ultimately we're drawing the serial killers not necessarily because we love the crimes but because we love their minds there's wonderful beautiful I don't know what's
01:29:04| going on in there people can't figure them out 3d people's greedy people we get I don't know I get that yeah jerks I get you know I mean passions you can understand yeah 100% these people okay
01:29:17| thanks you're right something crazy about it well lock your doors tonight folks close your windows check under your bed yeah check above your bed take your grip your
01:29:30| keys Thanks thanks for tuning in and listen to us we like it we like it again we got Amelia from the antimatter's podcast hi bean bean pod something like that you can say it again you do you
01:29:48| plug it I mean it's antimatter's you can find us on twitter at ship named Drake or just like Google antimatter spod cash you'll find us we're in sugar Oh thanks for joining us folks we like you
01:30:02| oh good night
00:00:10| you couldn't get away join us so I'm Dan and I'm Nick books for old friends dissecting one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep
00:00:28| dive in or unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping block baby we don't pander to popular opinion look like you can get a little bit dirty morning this podcast
00:00:42| may contain mature language and sexual content and is for entertainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your earholes [Music]
00:01:06| Oh oh my god what an intro got my heart going really I got nervous about someone's following me this is weird there's usually there's usually two of us mm-hmm are you there's someone
00:01:21| watching us gosh should we have a guest this is crazy somila from antimatter's Oh a podcast we actually did a previous episode with mm-hmm that's awesome repeat guests
00:01:36| uh-huh how do you feel about going back welcome we actually heard you might make a great serial killer expert I mean I would say so I don't know if anybody else would say I don't know how you
00:01:51| heard that on the grapevine well rumors circulating around their troubled past I went out there well don't take any I'll come back to that a little later ship has sailed
00:02:08| so Oh serial killers huh yes that's the big one today huh how does it all begin this is a head injuries were very mother's that's true too so we're actually gonna do one on serial killers
00:02:24| I didn't think this day would come folks but those of you who watch Criminal Minds or a third of the wall in order episodes maybe if we're probably all these great shows that we all love we
00:02:36| all get behind it we all root for the bad guy at least that's what I do it's finally come we're gonna do one on serial killers which by the way does anyone know the actual definition I love
00:02:47| definitions three or more kills right over a period of time I don't know if it specifies how far apart they are it's just two or more two or more stop you're both Riteish and there's no real set
00:03:02| definition it's the weirdest thing it's a person who commits a series of murders usually three or more doesn't say always often with no apparent motive typically following characters
00:03:13| characteristic predictable behavioral pattern that lasts over a over a month okay yeah it's called a cooling down period apparently if you kill like nineteen people in a row
00:03:25| that's a spring you're not a serial killer you're a killer spree guy way less cool Greg way less cool yeah you don't get to go to the club no coffee for you we're
00:03:38| thumbs down in you school shooters which is a real problem and probably a future episode but also we're thumbs down in them don't come to my school or my work but yeah those those are sprees that's
00:03:49| like a little different yeah it's almost it's actually a time word yeah yeah crime of passion yeah I guess I get a crime of passion you're gonna kill like 40 people but
00:03:57| you're mad like that makes sense you're gonna kill 40 people over 40 years not get caught that's terrifying there's something else going on in your brain and I'll get really mad at one
00:04:09| person once a year for 40 years imagine uh sorry Jim this is the last croissant but it looks like it's mine Oh Darryl you're gonna pay just like something at work that happened sparks
00:04:24| it nine months later the floor it's just like I forget who was who but Darryl's dead in nine months that's the thing with Psychopaths though right they they hold grudges like for extended periods
00:04:40| of time I would imagine I mean it for simple things like like you said taking the lobsters on like they log that and they will get their revenge on everyone
00:04:52| they've ever been offended by well there's no way we can know who is ahead of time right there's no like indicator do they wear a sign a special feature yeah they're a t-shirt or something good
00:05:03| they have to wear I go ahead and assume anybody who's like too nice is a psychopath shit mmm I'm like shaking hands with someone they've got like a really big toothy smile I'm like
00:05:14| psychopath that makes sense so they don't choose with black pants that might be a psychopath or just someone who doesn't own brown shoes they'd like to learn to imitate real people people with
00:05:24| emotions right oh that's like that's like the AI test like what's the one word that confuses a is they fail the Turing test when people say shit poop and a killer won't laugh oh
00:05:38| just say it you tell him set it up better you can explain this one it was like what's the one word that throws off an AI when you're doing a Turing test like if you say poop to an
00:05:48| AI and AI will just like acknowledge it doesn't start laughing and cracking up [Laughter] almost like a bad yeah psychopath might not laugh at poop
00:06:03| no no they've trained themselves they're dumb I can't remember his name but there's a neuroscientist who did a bunch of research into psychopathy and so he's looking at brain scans
00:06:18| apparently you can tell if somebody there's like a psychopath gene and you it shows up in brain scan and he had his brain scan and he was just like going through he's like oh that person's a
00:06:28| psychopath and then he looks down and has his name on it and he's like having to reevaluate his life he's like no I guess I am because not all Psychopaths you know our serial killers are
00:06:38| criminals they could be neuroscientists he was he dude did a bunch of TED talks and stuff he has a name that's similar to a famous person's name yeah James Fallon yeah Jimmy Fallon that's awesome
00:06:50| cool I did come across him he um did you did you do the whole talk with him yeah okay cuz like it wasn't like his great-great-great great-great grandfather the first recorded history
00:07:01| matricide I think it was yeah the first person ever kill their own mother Frank I did say it right I don't even know I got that yeah it matches that good I know and it's interesting because
00:07:13| he was just talking about how he was really waiting his life and looking at it differently like he's married he has children and everyone is whole like he went and said like hey guys I'm a
00:07:21| psychopath I'm like yeah that makes sense get it dad we know please don't kill us um but it's the same thing with like like you can grow up and be normal because like a psychopath II is
00:07:33| hereditary but um like you can like it can be fostered or like there was a Cameron Bure her name either but there was a little girl who was adopted by a family yeah I came you know talking
00:07:45| about you know I did come across this too and she ended up being a like a serial killer so it wasn't her upbringing I think we said to one your coconut raid
00:07:54| Thomas yeah but they they got her as a child and they did like therapy with her and she didn't kill you no no I was the opposite
00:08:03| someone got adopted from some like family and she became a serial killer and it was like a regular family and they were like has never happened she has a normal upbringing she has brothers
00:08:11| and sisters we just adopted her and they looked through genealogy and like her great-grandfather was like someone who killed a whole bunch of people and her uncle with someone who's in jail a lot
00:08:19| and everything and they're like oh well maybe it isn't the genes like they're always arguing is it nature versus nurture Adam basically every serial killer ever
00:08:27| right yeah a little bit yeah we don't know we don't know folks now my um my research has me going to this next bullet point okay you have to stay with me gang okay it's
00:08:41| a big job no it's the last of my notes I mean this is it once we do this I'm done the episode kind of you guys were done I don't know if we're gonna keep going and I know if you guys wanted to get into
00:08:49| specifics I just figured I was gonna float it from here on out so so why don't you give me this serial killer actually was a coined term in 1966-67 wasn't used in law until 1974 they were
00:09:06| called mass murderers at the time someone calling the term serial back then and you know they used it like sparingly here and there and like sciency papers and whatever well guess
00:09:17| what my man Wayne Williams started killing people in 1981 the New York Times called it a serial killer and that's where we've kept the word ever since that 81 killing Wayne Wayne Wayne
00:09:29| Williams sounds like a good guy I didn't google his name I can't fit Dan's doing it now I hope he is did you so what about Wayne Williams what made him a serial killer I actually don't
00:09:43| know can you fill me in if my memories boggy suspected of killing 23 people but he was convicted to only two that's usually how it works yeah that's a point even though they
00:09:54| confess to like the most of the people confess some peen or dozens even if they find the these they're like oh we configured him on like a fraction of what he actually
00:10:03| did do it's good yeah yeah there's a guy was just listening to recently I think his name was oddest a stool who confess to over a hundred murders and most of that was just him seeking attention
00:10:18| because he aren't even given the death penalty I don't like five or six he's the one who killed America's Most Wanted son Adam Adam Walsh remember that like though we go the hosts oh yeah oh yeah
00:10:36| he had a son that's why he started all this Adam Walsh went disappeared as a little kid and I didn't know that actually that's crazy see that so that's how America's Most
00:10:45| Wanted started huh revenge it was a dish best served on live TV mmm shutout uh no I guess you're absolutely right it wasn't but we do everything here live at the unban room
00:11:01| so that's why I like to think everyone else has that kind of gusto I don't know that's interesting cuz that makes me think of did you guys watch mind hunter I did that was the first time they tried
00:11:18| to identify the traits of serial killers yeah like they were that's coming up with this idea that people today I think take for granted because there's a character on that show who's um like
00:11:30| tickling children's feet it's not the same guy who like women's shoes - no that's a temper okay this is just like a principal of a school oh yeah yeah and so this guy is going around like they're
00:11:43| hanging kids and candy to tickle their feet did you guys watch the ED Kemper serial killer thing that was just recently on TV okay it was on like oxygen or one of those networks it's not
00:11:55| like a big timer right it's probably like an hour long or whatever so get this my on my sister's son her oldest son he's four or he was it was four at the time he's five ish now he'll be
00:12:06| fighting anyway they um I have a friend in like the showbiz but like not really showbiz like lower showbiz he um he was like do you know a kid who would play as a serial killer like as a
00:12:18| child we got my nephew to do it and he's in the actual show so it's really cool because I think it was ed Kemper and uh he's just supposed to sit in a chair and
00:12:27| like this old timey looking clothes and play with his doll while he looks at like this while his parents are screaming in front of them and then in one other scene he was supposed to like
00:12:35| play with a dead bird or something I was like so that's the beginning of the serial killer look at you serial killer wait wait a way to join the world buddy and he did
00:12:45| get paid the record I'm not allowed to say how much but he does need me big time he's like he could go to Panera for a week straight lunch for him and his mother and and I mean they'd probably be
00:12:55| done after that but a week straight I mean really just gonna write off that notoriety for the rest of his life my girls Hey as a kid man you were good you were real good if it's old-timey
00:13:10| clothes though and I assume that you don't need like 70s is all timing well like I think it was like an overall type thing guys like they would look dated sorry dated not old-time he dated yeah
00:13:22| yeah okay I think old timey I think like AJ tones kind of he was wearing a barrel with suspenders guess what the poor folk did back then but just circle back to sort the
00:13:37| tickling of the feet though is why it was interesting to me because like that today if you hear like some grown-ass man is tickling a little kids feet you're like 1 million eggs I mean really
00:13:48| let's let's check this out is it his kid yeah yeah okay this is someone else it's not normal I can take on my kids other kids feeding them in secret than candy what no that's that oh you're now you're
00:14:03| talking some red flags there the weird part of that show is that they didn't really convict that guy they just kind of forced him into an awkward situation to make him stop right yeah and like and
00:14:14| he was outraged and if other people were like no he's just like a really good guy because at the time those things weren't red flags like we take it wait like I don't wanna take advantage we was sort
00:14:24| of looking for you tickle one owner don't know better yet yeah like and now we're like well duh but then there's like you just the features that you'll do it all send my
00:14:34| kids over there to get tickled I don't want to give them candy that's okay I guess that's a weird thing like I guess some do you think like child molestation stuff or like probably way more rampant
00:14:43| in the 80s rate which is also I'm just surmising it on being unreported because the peak of serial killers they surmise was like the 1980s serial I wonder every day the 1980s really I was like
00:14:59| basically if you lived in the North West well 70s for me getting raped or murdered we're like really high well I think they had a graph I love grants folks it was from the
00:15:11| and the number peaked in the 80s now I don't know if that's the number of serial killings or killers but maybe that's when the notoriety is that its peak but forensics and cameras
00:15:22| everywhere is not you know named it's interesting that you say you have that grab could you said it was like 1981 or something where they were actually defining mass murderers of serial
00:15:31| killers so did they go back retrospectively and say that this was persons a serial killer versus a mess probably that's true and it was the hot word it was the hot item right that I
00:15:41| just mean like most of the cases I do I've heard about where late 60s 70s you know free love free murder kind of thing well fewer evidence fewer technology right yeah and also free because yes
00:15:56| also just better at keeping secrets in the 70s I guess Facebook maybe I don't know but the do you think information easier to kill someone and hide the body in the 1960s than today let's be honest
00:16:09| guys so there's there's one guy Gary Ridgway wears the Green River Killer he's like one of the most not celebrated but he was like one of the highest killers in the 1980s we can't wait this
00:16:25| guy he would he would prey on people that were I guess there there toots there sex workers workers so he picked all killed him and then dumped them on the road and he was um I think he was
00:16:36| like you paint like tractor trailers like he would you like almost like a oh that was his job so he would like dump them in the woods along his route and it was just it
00:16:47| was just bizarre because this guy who was doing that through like 10 or 20 years like he was doing it for a really long time he had like 50 kills and he would married like three women like
00:17:00| those women didn't even know that he was doing this ready we'll just say I need to leave early for some overtime and then killed on the knee in the morning I mean how many yeah it's pretty
00:17:11| horrific and I think that's like like you know he obviously targeted sex workers and that's not he's not unique in that I can't remember the guys name but there's one who was turning sex
00:17:21| workers and then brought him to their pig farm Criminal Minds is an episode on him and feeding them their corpses to pigs it's something that you can do and I
00:17:30| think that's why people call like why we've started calling prostitutes or whatever else you'd like to say best sex workers because it's D stigmatizing and you say prostitutes some people can push
00:17:45| them to the side they're not as important and so like removing that name says that you know it's a genuine employment and maybe that will stop these people from going missing for
00:17:57| years at a time before someone investigates there I mean the two are connected though yeah like the wait is who were connected the weight of killing like 50 women
00:18:07| versus killing 50 prostitutes it's like it's psychological exactly if you say it like that versus you know you just killed 50 women and that's not how they were advertising it though because as a
00:18:20| prostitute right not terminology you are less than it than a regular woman what's it started with the og I Jack the Ripper right we did an entire episode on him mm-hmm
00:18:31| his were ladies of the night correct or or five of them right it's just like hey they're there the weakest link in society they're protected the least you know what I mean so why wouldn't they
00:18:44| prey on them isn't that one of the yet PMO's of these uh serial killers they prey on the weakest whether it's children old people women prostitutes like do any me like they
00:18:56| kind of go for whoever they can and figure they're gonna get away with it the easiest definitely I mean we've got like Ken and Barbie killers Paul Bernardo when he was just known as the
00:19:07| scarf Scarborough rapist he was doing young girls young girls in college she could waiting up bus stops you heard the one that he killed one girl or you know raped one girl um who was locked out of
00:19:20| her home for missing curfew oh that was creepy yeah it's so like like that's a perfect example of someone like who's actually like in the predator mode looking for the weakest people to pick
00:19:32| off so that story was actually interesting because she was out late and then she went home but the door was locked and she didn't want to wake up her parents and she actually called a
00:19:40| friend to say can I stay at your house and the friend said no so she as she was going back to her parents house that's when Paul Bernardo I guess convinced her to come close to him and then I don't
00:19:52| know if he pulled a knife or he just like chloroformed her but he grabbed her just pretty much out of the middle of nowhere it wasn't even that she didn't want to wake up her parents they hadn't
00:20:01| written a note and put it on the outside of the door you miss curfew you're not allowed in there never okay you know you think you're teaching your kid a lesson right perfect and even from like I think
00:20:14| Barnardo's perspective he was doing something else at the time like he was prepping her like murdering somebody else and she walked by and he's like oh hey I'm gonna kill you right now yeah
00:20:25| yeah socks what a champion that was we're getting the more oh I was gonna say individual serial killers sure the last part of my notes was just um general characteristics of serial
00:20:37| killers and I wanted to bring them up because some of them are overstated and some of them are misconceptions should I count sure this is from I believe the FBI and Wikipedia two people I trust
00:20:48| more than anyone else two individual individual friend of mine called up w wiki and I called up FBI both really good friends of the podcast I'm sure they're listening in tonight applies
00:21:02| most serial killers if not all of them exhibit a lot of these qualities psychopathy or mental illness we kind of went over that but we keep saying psychopathy because it's so hard to say
00:21:13| because you want to say psycho happy when you're looking at it and you're doing a podcast that's what I eight times so far I think I've gotten it right every time except where I did that
00:21:21| on purpose no on purpose but can someone fill us in on what psychopathy is versus like by a sociopath ears no I'm not gonna do it it's like it's like it's not psychosis
00:21:39| like a bat right right and I'm trying to I don't 100% know definition that's why I was throwing it at you guys like maybe you guys know maybe you don't so psychopathy is someone make a crack in
00:21:50| it yeah it's a similar they don't have no there aren't emotions they're not reacting to the situation they can yeah they don't require differently in their brain so like this is kind of jumping
00:22:02| the gun but like sexual satisfaction isn't sexual satisfaction in their brain it's like a powerful power like like grind like they need to satisfy something but this is jumping in it's
00:22:15| like is sociopaths they um they withdraw from society they don't know how to fit into society right bitch it fits into like this social consciousness like if you're part of society you accept things
00:22:28| for as they as they are and un poppy I think that was the big one and it was the word I think we're skipping up I don't think sociopath some empathy either I think the difference is
00:22:37| psychopaths are calculated and are like if you look at a psychopath they look probably well put together they can hold a job they can be successful human beings and sociopaths are impulsive
00:22:51| sociopaths are the ones that you see in prison okay someone with like schizophrenia Arizona is usually so psychopath or sociopath depends I mean that's if they're not held together real
00:23:04| well like they look like you can see it all in other people avoid them they like it if you are walking around and you see someone like experiencing homelessness and they're talking to themselves and
00:23:12| they're you know and then they hurt somebody that's more likely to be a sociopath because they they still like black the empathy but a psycho wouldn't they're just more controlled I
00:23:24| think okay the psychopath has there's a term I came across called the mask of sanity I think that's what we're talking about yeah they can make it look like they're normal but they're they're not
00:23:34| they don't actually feel human emotions as we said so another one I came across is they're often abused whether it's physical emotional or mental maybe you touched on something earlier where
00:23:47| they're trying to say that usually a trauma to the prefrontal cortex or orbital area of the brain is almost its present in more than half them like 80% I don't even know what the number was
00:23:59| but it was like a lot and for that to be an effect I was like wow yeah Richard Ramirez Ted Bundy I think there's another Gacy I think all three of them had a major like they fell off a swing
00:24:12| it had it like a serious head injury as a child changes them right there yeah next I had paraphilias which Dan touched on a paraphilia is like um in accordance to know in acquirements to know wanting
00:24:30| to have fetishism yeah a little bit fetishism necrophilia Rd ilysm which is where your sexual satisfaction is tied not to accelerate your sex organs or anything but a part of someone or that
00:24:47| means to control somebody or exert your power yeah yeah there you go so the other thing I came across was the Macdonald triad did you guys hear about this
00:24:57| okay so McDonald triad is one of three things that a lot of these people exhibit serial killers usually fire setting animal abuse or like opening up dissecting and the third one which I
00:25:11| thought was kind of funny bedwetting yeah no long-term bedwetting like you're like 12 oh my god your two-year-old is gonna be a serial killer there's a weird story with one of them I forget which
00:25:30| one it might have been Dahmer we're like he would bed wet until 13 and then his mom would come in and like clean his private parts and like at the age of like 12 and
00:25:44| the end every time hey yeah is weird anger and then like uh what is it Oedipus is like he loves his mom the mother complex right like so he's like attracted and repulsed at the same time
00:25:56| so he can't connect with women at that point is what I read into it and it just spins off into awfulness makes sense I was just gonna keep going because we're probably gonna get real deep into these
00:26:08| but they're often teased bullied or isolated this sounds pretty common pretty make sense I mean they're there shut off from society for one reason or the other they're often they're already
00:26:19| exhibiting the weird things that we just talked about right and children are the most cruel people of all children are all serial killers youths are terrifying yes they are when I see a gang of like
00:26:29| six-year-olds playing games and laughing and calling each other names if I'm walking on the same side street I will cross the street to the other side so they don't roast my old person outfit
00:26:39| I'm terrified some other adult serial killers there but like it's 12 and 13 year olds that like oh yeah I identify what you're in my weakness they know your weakness they start doing
00:26:53| rap battles as you're walking by yeah this is the moms okay this guy's shirt is he's looking at the P the people at them because they keep calling him a pedo
00:27:05| and he can see keep telling himself you'll not a pedo you're not a pedo and all the 12 13 year-olds are saying Pina Pina Pina he's not really trying to get away from me he's looking up and we know
00:27:18| when their plays like a lot of rotten children I wish a wreckage would come through twisted bone and metal muck what are you doing nothing um the other thing that's crazy is the
00:27:31| last that I'll give you is that they all tend to have median IQs mmm 89 was their average score most people think serial killers are like super intelligent and swirl wine in
00:27:44| a glass it tends to not often in their be the fact exact so there might be that suede there other could be genius I'm talking about the median they break it down in different
00:27:55| groups so there's the organized group which is like the more intelligent group who plans and like they plot and they figure things out so they won't get caught and then there's the disorganized
00:28:03| group which is more impulsive so they just kind of get frustrated with something and then kill somebody I like I kind of want to win and those people get caught kind of more readily because
00:28:12| they're not they're not covering things up they're not hiding the body they just kind of like push it to the side and then keep going with their life until they get a con yeah I don't disagree I
00:28:21| mean I don't know what Bundy's IQ is I think his was higher end of average Quebec I think that's why he you know Bundy was the guy who wanted to do his own self defense oh yeah at the window
00:28:36| that's right Bundy had an IQ of 136 that's pretty good all right hey uh Ted if you listen to the podcast shout out how did you do that from beyond the grave but he did die right like he was
00:28:50| electrocuted okay cool I think was he the last meal I heard where he didn't eat it didn't eat them you know yeah I think that because he he didn't want to eat a last meal and I believe if
00:29:02| you don't ask for a last meal to give you a standard its steak eggs hash browns orange juice milk coffee and grits I think I know what state yes all you could say you could get whatever
00:29:18| they wanted and then somebody in Texas ordered a bunch of food and then didn't eat any of it you just get one slice of bacon goodbye Lawrence Russell Brewer was the guy who requested the huge meal
00:29:30| didn't oh that son of a bitch changed everything protected he fucked up ruin it for everyone but but here's my question so like he doesn't eat any of it like he doesn't want to eat he's put
00:29:42| to death all that stuff like do you think like the guard who has to take it's looking at and he's like pretty good pretty good steak when do you throw it in the trash I would he didn't touch
00:29:51| it I would eat it you wouldn't would you no way but he didn't touch it I mean I understand I'm not eating the happy in Bundy steak but like no not even one he didn't he asked
00:30:02| either I mean it's just touched it or I gotta back then it was for him just bad luck that's how you get murdered by a ghost makes sense though my starvation I'm gonna eat that okay that's it guys
00:30:19| this is literally all my notes Oh two more notes 76% of all killers in the United States so shout out the u.s. rep serial killers mega hard and it's one reason and one reason only we pull
00:30:34| ourselves up by our bootstraps those and we will serial kill as we see fit every day every day we don't stop can't stop won't stop it's probably got a lot to do with the Wild West so maybe it didn't
00:30:49| well that's it maybe they just didn't catch their sure killers maybe they know I did not mean the Will Smith movie I know that's where you guys were going I was literally thinking of because it was
00:31:00| like hard to catch crime like the Bonnie and Clyde type stuff well yeah Bonnie and Clyde this definitely that was the depression area and that was interesting because so many people were on their
00:31:10| side until they killed like a bunch of cops and they're really kool aid was cool you know yeah yeah they did like though the Robin Hood theory where they were gonna steal from the rich and give
00:31:24| to the poor and then they didn't give to the bore and everyone's like what wait they are the poor yeah but then they shot a bunch of cops that's yeah that's usually I know guys you know last that
00:31:37| which hopefully leads us somewhere guys percent yeah it's all I got in the United States you know about that I mean I guess it's not unfortunate but the thing is there was more no I I'm
00:31:57| actually but that it's like what like what they do because women women female serial killers are usually out for power or financial gain and so they like the act of killing isn't the thrills again I
00:32:10| mean there's a couple of sexy ones right sexuals know angels of mercy back injecting bring in the back but generally it's like I need insurance money or like my husband's been beating
00:32:26| me and that should be it should be a serial killer if you kill like three husbands over the course like thirty years for like a million bucks exactly the Black Widow deal shouldn't be called
00:32:38| serial killer that's like a whole different category in my opinion but that's that's killing and it's rude it's very rude we should not murder your husband so if
00:32:47| you killed three of your wives you would probably not be a serial killer then you'd be just course of daily just regular business you know you gotta do what you got to do make ends meet people
00:32:57| weren't watching their back that's on them over the ornate third-story railing that we have that's made of gold onto the marble floor below like that's it's gonna happen event I take justice right
00:33:10| there yeah but I'm also interested in the ladies who are interested in oh boy ooh buckle up folks I have a feeling we got a long list of craziness coming in here so this is this is what I just
00:33:27| doesn't make any sense whatsoever people get fixated on a serial killer and regardless of how bad or evil or amoral that person is they still want to sleep with them but not even regardless I'd
00:33:39| say almost because of yeah oh yeah it's definitely because of you talked about like serial killers was it paraphilia yeah these it's not just women because it's men too like this Hybris to philia
00:33:53| which is the idea that you are interested or romantically interested in somebody who's committed some sort of horrific crime good pronunciation by the way is that how all these men get
00:34:02| letters in prison yeah it happens all the time like Charles Manson as like all these like love letters coming to her I'm like who's writing someone in prison the Manson girls - who are they yeah
00:34:15| they were getting letters and like Karla Homolka which we talked about for just a second she ended up marrying her former attorneys brother so she's free has a family with this man who knew all of her
00:34:29| crime seen everything laid out she confessed to it and he's like yeah but she was I called again crimes kind of hi again I was gonna say it but I was like I'm
00:34:43| gonna mess I'm Bristow Julia hell yeah I hope you were high no key word wrists no key word philia so called the bonny incline syndrome ah I did come across that then
00:35:00| okay cool so like it's it's a little bit like celebrity right Joe they're so famous yeah they chop people up they're so famous brothers are both got married in
00:35:10| prison no they killed their parents and just straight up set all the beats what am i married a model why don't man so that's the key that's what I was thinking hmm you need a thing you'll get
00:35:26| a hot woman in the prison I mean what's cursor disclaimer we're not saying you'll be free and everything will be great everything will be pretty free all your
00:35:36| meals will be free and everything else will be pretty great yeah otherwise don't go do you think anybody messes with them in prison if they know they've killed like 50 people like they're after
00:35:50| one crime for ten years you imagine yo Menendez told me to to scram again it's like Oh si he said what and it's like he said get the hell out man I was like did you step to him this time he's like now
00:36:02| it's been eight years I'm not gonna start now someone's gonna start with these guys you can't ride one crime forever I think it depends on the crime I mean
00:36:10| what was it Dahmer was only in prison for two years before someone murdered him yeah with a steel pole I came across oh really yeah it really depends on what you've done like how crazy someone
00:36:20| thinks you are but that one had more to do with disgust and hate did you also hear what the armor did with a lot of his food his prison food yeah so um he was famous for his crimes like I think
00:36:32| he rode that that was a little bit of a power trip friend he would shape the prison food to look like genitals and then sometimes he would make them look like people and he would cover them
00:36:43| ketchup to make it look like he killed like blood and they said that a lot of the inmates thought that was in poor taste whether they really meant that or not they had to be pretty legit like you
00:36:58| imagine he just pointed it you across the way and he made like a wiener out of magic videos and then he started squirting some ketchup on it what can I eat like a guy and he has the reputation
00:37:10| it's not like he's doing it randomly you know this guy really like he might rip off a wiener and eat it you know nummy so I think that I mean I don't know obviously I wasn't like roses them or
00:37:20| anything but it grows with him but it sounds like I think he might have been playing that up because I think Dom's every other and instance that you see him he's just this guy who's he's like
00:37:30| thank God you finally caught me can we can we get into his story the reason being is so before this episode I know I watched Criminal Minds I love serial killer stories like it all whatever but
00:37:41| I'd ever sat down and researched each one to know who was famous for which crimes because in my head serial killer one serial killer did all of these things which is very unkind of makes it
00:37:54| let's do yes it did and it's it's wild so as I'm researching tonight I was like ah telomer did all this one Oh Leatherface did all this one I forgot his real name but let's let's focus on
00:38:06| Dahmer for a second cuz he's a good guy stand up back the Dahmer was the one who was a charismatic and found out he was gay like 14 or no well Owen charismatic he's not ya know Dahmer
00:38:19| was not charismatic in fact like Levi was in high school he had some friends he wasn't like a super loser this thing I don't know if you found it when you were looking at us that was called like
00:38:28| pulling a Dahmer I did I did act like he was having a seizure or having cerebral palsy that's rude I'm pretty sure Nick is on that for the record I don't think I've ever done that but pulling a Dahmer
00:38:42| thought he was like a comedic genius they were like this guy's hilarious and so yeah you got made fun of but not any than anybody else that in high school didn't show up to school drunk a lot
00:38:52| yeah yet is the bureau I was amazing most interesting about Dahmer is like so he had friends who drank with him not as much the same like for the same extent he did his uh pulling a Dahmer Rose and
00:39:07| then he also would dissect and he wasn't like an animal torture he was more into like once they would have no shame but he bring friends out there with him and they would do it with him too
00:39:17| sometimes we got to be social right I was I just mean like how many other people did the same like we're talking about the Macdonald triad how many other people in his friend group met the same
00:39:30| like if you looked at their their childhoods right look exact psychopathy some weird fetishes going on there they're helping them dissect like there's also things red flags you're
00:39:41| saying they have a whole bunch right yeah and so like like I mean you just think about all these people who have the same exact habits but they don't have the psychopathy gene or they didn't
00:39:52| have the same childhood doesn't mean that they can't like have a I would say unnatural curiosity right was he the one whose dad was a chemist yes so that was cool too because he said yeah of course
00:40:10| my son is interested in dead things and dissecting like that's how it scientist brain works and it kind of is right so those would agree yeah and he actually encouraged it because Upton Tilton his
00:40:20| son was like 10 or 11 he was really really a loop and then when he expressed interest in like let's get a giant steel barrel and some caustic soda my son will love this great what's the worst that
00:40:36| can happen now we're gonna know like I don't know how detailed we gotta get into into their crimes versus serve mmm pathology versus what they actually physically did
00:40:51| psychology behind it okay just personally mmm like it was interesting to me like how like as they afterwards they always get diagnosed I mean some of the
00:41:02| beforehand have been in and out of prison and had mental health services but some of them up until they get caught for their murders have going on right so it's interesting to me that
00:41:13| Dahmer and Aileen Wuornos were both diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and on itself like tons and tons of people have BPD and they're not murderers
00:41:27| serial killers yeah um it's just interesting if you've ever investigated that particular mental illness like the the traits are like inability to be alone fear of abandonment unstable
00:41:42| emotions like these are like you would like write down a serial killer traits one two three four it's like a red flag yeah and so it's just and then if you look at their childhoods like we were
00:41:56| talking about head injuries and otherwise you can just draw parallels it's just like in retrospect it's a lot of duh I guess but what's crazy about his and you just mentioned it his fear
00:42:08| of abandonment was yeah hundred percent the whole thing he um he would always um yeah he also again I'm not trying to get two seconds but it wasn't buddy-buddy it is he would be like hey come with me eh
00:42:22| I want to drink with you and have a casual like night and then he would I want to do photos do you look like a great guy you're a model like I said it was like a repressed okay thing like he
00:42:32| didn't think he was he was so he would get these guys back and a lot of times drugging became a thing and I was like wow these guys are drunk and everybody it's like drugging this guy I'm drugging
00:42:42| this guy you're drugging this guy and um he would drug these people and I don't think his intention was necessarily to kill it was to incapacitate these people so that they didn't they couldn't leave
00:42:55| him kind of like disarming them right but the he just didn't he didn't want them to leave him like that was his whole thing he didn't want to be abandoned and
00:43:03| his desires were crazy and a little sick more than ilysm he would drill hole in someone's head he pour water and they were there okay and he had to kill them so the next time he
00:43:16| a hole in someone's head he poured hydrochloric acid in there and they were messed up real bad it was a young kid 14 year old right is this a story product hold on
00:43:26| so the fourteen-year-old left the room because Dahmer was just leaving him he was having his way with them doing his thing having a party he went out to get more beers I believe was his story and
00:43:37| as he was coming back to his own apartment he saw the 14 year old talking to some ladies and the ladies were trying to flag over a cop because he was like
00:43:44| acting funny he was looked like he was drugged it was covered in a little bit of blood and the cop came over and Dahmer was like oh shit shit I got act cool act cool act cool he's like that's
00:43:53| my boyfriend and the cop was like whoa okay then she boyfriend that's normal and then the ladies were like you're not gonna take him you're gonna do anything and he's like oh we just know at the
00:44:04| time I guess cuz like the whole gay stigma he was just like oh I'm gonna mess with those loops let go everything's fine anyway he um took that fourteen-year-old
00:44:12| back and murdered him but wasn't he the one chopped up their bodies and then put them in the bathtub and then like dissolved their flesh yeah he who's he was getting rid of a lot of flesh but he
00:44:24| kept a lot of stuff too he was a trophy come here hands right he would talk to the head do a lot with the heads what I heard again we want to get too graphic on the thing but he was he was a trophy
00:44:37| guy um not a trophy guy and not a guy either is a particularly interesting to me as a serial killer because um I don't have to guess any research on her childhood but it's just like straight
00:44:57| horrific you know like her her dad was in prison and killed himself after you know he hurt people and then she's raped and pregnant by 14 and she's like years old and marries a 70 year old and she's
00:45:11| got alcohol problems of her own and basically like her whole life is just a shit show it's horrific and um the first guy that she kills like and it's her excuse for every person she kills is
00:45:23| that they were trying to rape her and then she had to kill them and I don't know huh I like that she tried to use that excuse on people who were like they were
00:45:33| like ex police officers and lieutenants or something and like this guy is so unlikely to do that and she still shot them like six or seven times that first guy she actually did kill was a
00:45:50| convicted rapist it's easy to sell that story and she probably got off line got away boy I wonder if the first time it happened it was real right and then to kill him but like I said the guy was a
00:46:03| convicted rapist I don't I don't know for sure I I do believe this woman suffered from PTSD so yes she was killing to rob them so that she could support her and her girlfriend and their
00:46:13| drug and alcohol problems and you know all of that stuff I'm not saying that any of it's okay but I wonder if the first one might have been actually an attempted rape
00:46:23| victimization part of it was like that's weird yeah the first time around maybe she was defending herself and then there's a mental stigma that sticks after that
00:46:33| maybe that happens once and you just can't deal with it and your reaction is to fight back and kill I can see that happening for like the first time and then persisting until you resolve that
00:46:46| issue but for like Aileen Wuornos she never got out of that state she just kept killing anybody who came nearer its change and she kept looking for it like they say that the reason why her defense
00:46:57| doesn't work is she had like essentially a kill bag you know like if she was just hitchhiking or looking to do sex work why did you have a gun man like Windex and all of the stuff in your bag okay
00:47:11| it's because you were looking to kill somebody I'd be prepared right yeah yeah you never know he was a girl's killer you got a yeah yeah be prepared got to what's fun is really interesting
00:47:23| even afterwards because when she goes into prison some like woman who's only like basically sells her story well like her trials happening so there's like a made-for-tv movie that's happening while
00:47:37| it's happening they're making all this money off of her it's just really terrible with this idea is this woman are Leonardo's also had support line
00:47:45| personality disorder so she's looking for someone to stay with her and take care of her and so they they use that in some say that maybe she didn't have a fair trial because although the whole
00:47:57| thing going on right mmm and then they abandon her when she stopped doing interviews because she didn't want them making money off of her and I don't know if you guys heard any of the like court
00:48:09| proceedings with her in it where she's like telling everybody she hopes they get raped and actually that's one of the things that really when you hear about some serial killers being prosecuted and
00:48:21| we have to decide whether or not they're sane right yeah or fitness day on trial and I don't think that she was and the idea that you could say that she was means like maybe you have a loose grip
00:48:32| on what that'll help it so the only definition I've read about it was that if you're unable to actually like converse with your counsel you're insane like you can't help your
00:48:44| counsel help you then there's nothing you can do you can't stay in trial yeah well that's I think fit to stand trial but the the mental health one is you have to be able to like whether or
00:48:55| not you're saying is whether or not you can see that the crimes you did were illegal or meanness in some way so like there's a guy um I think they called him like a vampire killer who was he thought
00:49:07| that in order to survive he needs to drink the blood of victims so he just like walked around a neighborhood and opened any door that was open and went in and killed them and like disemboweled
00:49:15| them and did all these terrible things like that guy was actually insane he was just like out of this Gordon could not tell you that this was a bad choice where like Eleanor nose would hide a
00:49:26| body steal a car do her best to cover her tracks and that's how they decide whether or not it's saying but I think it's more I think it I think honestly I
00:49:34| think it needs to be better defined does mental hoping that something's wrong does it mean that you were in control of your actions at the time now the mental health system is terrible especially
00:49:47| legally speaking did you have something in your notes about declaring insanity versus not declaring insanity or maybe they would sure notes I apologize you know what do you add it in your nose
00:50:00| don't know that it's actually definable I know that it's been increasing slightly over the years but I I don't know that there's a clear definition of whether you're insane or not it takes
00:50:10| like you can't say borderline personality disorder maybe do this right but but you have to take that into consideration correct but not when you're talking
00:50:19| about whether or not you're insane I think basic I mean I might be a little off-kilter here but I do think it is whether or not you can see your crime like can you understand the first good
00:50:31| versus bad and if you can say okay yeah I made I killed somebody and I shouldn't have then they're able to say old and you're saying yeah there's like a methodical nasarah serial killers if
00:50:42| they could figure out how to execute the crimes that they did then there's almost no way that they were insane because they were logically processing the event and figuring out how to avoid being
00:50:54| detected my argument with that is if you're able to like plan strategically and like plan to murder and then like put bodies and disembowel solve them then like maybe you're a little crazy
00:51:08| this is what I'm gonna say to you guys which is exactly kind of the crux of the whole serial killer thing I've loved hearing about circulars I love reading their stories like it's fascinating to
00:51:20| me because it's not there's something missing in their logic like there seems to be a step that I can't even fathom like I think like they do I perceive the world like they do as far as physically
00:51:33| I understand warmth I understand another person is talking to me I understand it's raining today but there's something so bizarrely different about someone who can justify killing more than one people
00:51:44| and dissolving the body and like doing things with bones and stuff so it's it's it's like crazy to me so this is it any serial killer is insane to me there's like almost I'm gonna highlight a
00:51:58| portion of then because like if so the way I see so a killer is like he goes out on a date and then he gets romantic and it starts to get physical and like as a normal guy you just kind of like
00:52:09| become romantic passionate but a serial killer just spins that completely and doesn't have any of that romance no passion whatsoever and he just starts to kill so
00:52:18| it's it's like a violence that happens at the point where you're supposed to be connected with somebody except they disconnect they decide not to be in that situation with that person
00:52:28| then they they just lit they thrive on that like the power the the sense of destroying somebody else I think I also like to think of serial killers as
00:52:39| addicts and the like if you are suffering from an addiction you're going to do crazy things and then just by it I also use crazy I know it's pejorative so know that I'm just like being flippant
00:52:51| um but you do like things that you could never imagine like you hear like drug addicts do like nuts of things and they can they have reasons for them and they change their whole life in order to
00:53:03| continue to feed their addiction at that saying I say saying because I think big addictions also a mental illness that same people wouldn't do um like eating a person's face in Florida what huh like
00:53:17| eating that guy's face there's like guy who ate that guy's face table and he's on crocodile if you're on crocodile you guys understand it's just a thing that happens move over here in Florida know
00:53:26| what you're touching on though is also important because it also it emphasizes escalation these serial killers often escalate almost every story starts with I did something by accident to a friend
00:53:39| or I did something to a woman on a crazy whim and it gets more violent more calculated you need it more escalated yeah which is very much like the drug addiction thing you know the story there
00:53:51| is that like they will focus on someone who's like younger and then move to someone who's older they'll have like let go after women and then I forget who it was but they started going after
00:54:01| couples and then forcing couples to do a golden it might when the goals date killer yeah home state yeah he was just he started off as a burglar and a rapist and then he was focusing on couples and
00:54:14| then started murdering yeah the escalation escalation he would stack plates on their backs on the man's back and said if if you move I'm going to hear the plates move and then
00:54:24| bad things are gonna happen and then he would do whatever he wanted to and he'd like go quiet for a while to see if they would like start reacting and they'd like show up again 30 minutes
00:54:33| later and they'd be like they wouldn't know what the other 30 minutes is a long goddamn yeah and he'd call I think there was a call that he made like 20 years after he had raped a woman and he said
00:54:46| hey remember when we played oh my god I'm gonna hark on this one cuz this I mean this is a little this is some one awkward question but like in your in your life is there are there moments
00:55:02| when you feel vulnerable nice lead the FET as as a man there's only a couple times in my life where I felt like I was vulnerable and here's one example so I dropped somebody off at a bus
00:55:11| station I pulled in I made sure that they were okay when I was waiting there there were two guys who were obviously druggies came up behind my car at the same time one guy knocked on my window
00:55:24| another guy was looking from my right side and one guy asked for money and I didn't I couldn't tell what the other guy was doing because I couldn't look both ways I ended up giving like the one
00:55:33| guy dollar and he went away and left me alone that was when I felt the most vulnerable because that other guy could have done anything to smash in my car and jump me as a man you're not really
00:55:45| that vulnerable in general because you're strong enough to maybe put up a fight I think that's changing a little bit with more technology and guns and all sorts of stuff but as a woman
00:55:54| there's probably more moments where you feel like this could probably end badly yeah I mean I mean not even that dramatic I think what happens is like our parents and media and everybody
00:56:07| trains you that honestly if someone gives me a compliment like even that even just like a basic competent at no compliment and I know I'm like a little sensitive but if you are you look a
00:56:18| little bedraggled and you're making intense eye contact and you say you're a pretty girl I'm freaked out like like you do the the keys in your fist thing yeah that's so funny most guys don't
00:56:31| even know about this women like are just trained this is another one do you check your car when you get yeah I'd make this is so crazy so guys guys take this for granted you get into
00:56:45| your car late at night if it's in a parking lot or something to make sure you're not followed you have to look in your car I don't have to yeah yeah that's another thing like guys don't
00:56:55| even think of this it's a very guide dog it's a common thing exactly I usually don't until I've heard a lot of these stories now I'm like I'm like that's crazy the other day I got in my
00:57:04| Jeep I was like you think you went in here no no was in there and no no one thinks I'm not attractive like I think they think I'm sort of that attractive not that it's not worth it the other
00:57:14| thing is like women are told like put your keys between each like this so that like if someone comes at you you can at least hit them I used to do you everything good I can I'm sorry no I was
00:57:25| asking Dan if you ever thought of it cuz clearly I've never thought about it yeah it's never had to do that oh the point isn't that you have to do it it's a little bit like African Americans get
00:57:35| pulled over by a cop like they're told by their parents at an early age there's like a talk that they give it's like just literally son don't mess with this it's I usually talk with guys so you
00:57:49| keep your hands here because you make a sudden movement hey I'm gonna get my stuff over here you can literally get shot you have to respond to their bias by being right oh
00:57:58| really courteous right which is a little mess it's not a little messed up it's messed up but regardless it's something that you take for granted and something you
00:58:06| don't really think of and it's it's super casual things and I think one of my most recent experiences and this is just something on the internet which isn't even like a personal thing like a
00:58:16| physical person thing I someone messaged me I got a message request and I accepted it and they just said hi and then I said hi back and then I got a dick pic time Wow that's another thing
00:58:31| and that was one way to do that but then the next time someone randomly messaged me I like tried to like figure out like oh hi how do I know you and they were like oh I don't you're just a person and
00:58:42| blah blah blah and so they gave me a compliment and I made sure to say thank you because I didn't want to dick Vic I didn't want them to be mean to me so I said thank you and then they
00:58:51| followed up with so do you live alone but I'm like yeah that's not and and so this is just like Internet safety but that's pretty much every interaction you have with a person
00:59:03| I think women are just on guard with like okay they're being nice to me okay I'll be nice back to them can you can you give us an honest opinion how many I mean pic pics have you gotten obviously
00:59:12| unsolicited in my life too many doesn't I think okay I didn't know I don't yeah it's a guy it's completely like a it's a foreign concept to think that that happens all the time because guys
00:59:29| probably are wishing for like a vagina pic but that's not a thing hi they're typing they're typing come on do it do it but no I I actually don't know that I've ever roofer Oh vagina pic yeah but
00:59:48| anyway do we do it she's gonna shoot she's gonna shoot a clam over here we got sidetracked oh yeah yeah yeah but it shows the vulnerability as like as as a man right you're you have physical
01:00:03| strength and women don't have that and it's you mean it's impairing a man to a woman's strength is completely different like there's no situation where you're actually understanding the difference
01:00:15| between this like the a man's strength and women strength yeah and you're talking about physical strength but then there's also the you know political like societal norms that go with it and so
01:00:26| even if like you hear plenty of instances where someone doesn't report crime because they're afraid of not like you know something terrible happen to them but reporting it well they're not
01:00:37| going to believe the things that go into it like these we have all these rape kits but I think honestly even rape kits in themselves are really intrusive like after someone's assaulted you you're so
01:00:47| sore the hospital and be like they do they swab everything and so the idea that you would even do that and then you haven't kits that are sitting for years and some sort of backlog we've got
01:00:57| hundreds and thousands of untested rape kits and it's just like after being violated you get violated again and so you get white people want to report it and ask violated
01:01:07| questions and then ask there's I think there's a certain way they ask the question to make sure you're not to blame yep like are you sure you didn't say yes four times what were you wearing
01:01:18| when this happened is that that they already feel like and women do it to themselves before they even get the questions at us you know it's a no-go but this brings us back to serial
01:01:31| killers guys don't talk about the Golden State killer how he was eventually caught because this kind of feeds into that that is interesting it's crazy interesting I was reading
01:01:41| this book called I'll be gone in the dark by Michelle McNamara that was published she died before it got published so they kind of had to piece it together big fan of the podcast big
01:01:53| fan of hot guys she was before she passed and so nope with many I apologize um but so yeah she died and they her husband who's Patton Oswalt had it polished up
01:02:15| that's so cool I know yeah and and then it was released him in several months later they caught him in exactly the way that she said that they would which was from through
01:02:25| familial DNA but it wasn't 23andme it was some other website that has less secure data collection I guess so also for the record because I originally when I heard this story I thought that he
01:02:40| filled out a 23andme or a subsidary and then they just like really hey idiot we got you we got your DNA you just match it up so that wasn't the story I just found out today so bring it down
01:02:50| California right and then California in the 2004 estranged they started they devoted for prop 69 which is for any any felon I believe they were collecting DNA for so anybody who committed a crime
01:03:05| they had this giant database and then also there's something called the CODIS which is like a national database of DNA for criminals yeah I don't know how like he committed a crime prior maybe I
01:03:21| didn't read into this part though oh I I thought it was something else did you read familial yeah but how did they live I guess they knew they knew they had DNA from from what from all the
01:03:33| rapes he committed no I can call his relatives it was I think that his relatives they gave me way a great deal of detective work that they had to do so yeah they got it through one of his
01:03:45| relatives but then they had let's say then they compared the DNA to who this was so they had this DNA they said this is a match okay so this is a third cousin match to the Golden State killer
01:03:58| and then they had to say okay now let's look at all of these other possible you know like people that are connected to this guy well this guy wasn't even in the area at this time this guy's too
01:04:06| young this guy's too old and then they really Co it's him but they had to do like detective work after they thought that DNA evidence yeah did you did you catch 30 years literally his relatives
01:04:15| were taking these tests and sending in their DNA or or being convicted about the crimes I guess I didn't consider that but they were getting DNA from all these people who had his DNA familial it
01:04:26| was very similar to his like they could tell whether it was this is almost perfect match this is like an uncle or a great relative of his this has to be one family tree removed from the guy who did
01:04:37| all these crimes and they started piecing together all these pieces around him using that DNA and finally they were like well this guy fits the bill pretty good and I think they at that point they
01:04:48| had to find other stuff on him and physical evidence but it really pointed them right to him I can't remember but I feel like they actually got a piece of his DNA like Oh today after they had
01:05:01| narrowed it down to him they're like oh don't mind if I do rummage through your garbage and take out some yeah I'm but I mean it's like what did you was he in a camellia he
01:05:12| didn't I don't know if this guy was in a necrophiliac or not I don't think you weddings I didn't catch that yeah which oddly enough there's a stat in one of the boys records is that if
01:05:22| you're more intelligent Rutgers study you're more likely to commit Nick freely I just want to add of that little fact wait intelligence is more likely to yeah if you're more intelligence if you're
01:05:32| more intelligent than you on the fact that you killed somebody therefore you're willing to go back because you are not you know you know you're not trying to avoid the scene
01:05:41| you're thinking about it so the more intelligent people will go back and then that's Bundy yeah and they um what was the the first kind of Krampus name I lost him
01:05:54| he's going anyway green rivers drop green or killer no the Green River guy yeah yeah yeah um real quick on that same marker studied they figured out in the United
01:06:05| States at least how serial killers kill their victims number one folks done I'm 43 percent correct number two they don't want to take a guess what is it I say it's like
01:06:18| bludgeoning poison triangulation the old behind that we got 14.8% stabbed I can serial kill with this I'm not gonna folks a little word for the wise 14% next up bludgeon you're right nine
01:06:47| percent you ever see a serial killer Kelso would have her check the Internet what's 7.2% last one we're gonna go into cuz a lot of the rest are like one percenters hmm actually the story is rat
01:07:09| poison so that's interesting interesting I didn't know that mmm-hmm well there you go two birds one stone can you be a serial killer P if the third person you kill is yourself
01:07:20| probably not mmm-hmm I got it no no cooling-off period there that's the problem so our are we psychopathic we all took a test right I think it was that we dare
01:07:35| psychopathic II sorry yeah I definitely I didn't get a hundred so it's nobody oh yeah it's over over thirty psychopathic tests I have thirty [Music]
01:07:46| oh my god it was only like 85% of people are actually psychopathic and I scored pretty low which is I thought strange because I'm very non empathic so I scored lower than Nick actually 11 that
01:08:03| I'm a bit I scored 12 folks I got 10 oh wow actually makes sense when you think about it did everything make sense in retrospect you know I mean I literally
01:08:17| just got just done dissecting the dog that passed a couple months ago not really so wait did you guys have friends who took the test yeah and I gave it to all of my friends we're pretty close
01:08:35| like something like the guys are on the show I got a twenty nine and a half like I did the show we've got like an eight or nine but my boy forgot our 26 and I'm thinking yeah my talk oh yeah worried he
01:08:52| also had a head injury so I'm just concerned no it's all going to into the record write it down in that scene Rutgers DNA markers daddy can you collect any those serial killers
01:09:15| what do they kill for the this is the Rutgers study number one we think it is guys control 31.8% uh they actually group this with something else which is a more general term enjoyment oh god do
01:09:37| you know what number two was which I was a little surprised little black widow action here okay 30.1% kill her financial game that even considered serial killing at that point nothing
01:09:48| like CEOs or like the CEO son or like you know like whatever like to get ahead in your job is it fun I mean it's still considered for gain but what yes Vanessa a killer killed every dude she
01:10:03| ever went with yeah see it like overlapping life insurance policies her husband and she's like Oh jackpot once every 20 years they slaughter let's get that cash that's a cooling-off
01:10:15| period folks yeah anger meet up the third one multiple Wow more than one gang activity made up six with the FBI because they claimed that if you're killing people for a gang
01:10:30| membership it's not considered serial killing some people said it was some said it wasn't it really depends you're trying to get notoriety and move ahead in the ranks it would be like our Mafia
01:10:41| killer is considered serial killers they kill a dying people I don't think so we don't let your crime junkie and I don't care about the Mafia and I don't care about gang violence I
01:10:55| agree epidemics of large terrible proportion but also we don't care about it for a second like accomplices like the a Bernardo and oh come on come on I can't say that
01:11:17| that's close enough so she was kind of convinced by Paul to do all these awful things even to her own sister so a lot of her the deaths involved in our murders I'll say involved in like the
01:11:30| both of them killing or like chloroform related like they didn't know how to control how to knock somebody out so they killed them but in the end they put the blame mostly on Bernardo and the
01:11:43| woman was only convicted of like very few years because they didn't blame the woman in it good numbers I think she only got charged with the manslaughter of her sister and it was manslaughter
01:11:55| because they said it was accidental man's laughter as we say here mainly meant to rape her and the tapes that they had recording what would have Carla's participation were withheld by
01:12:11| all attorney and then destroyed yeah well they were destroyed in around 2001 because the judge thought that they'd at least to the Internet like they were
01:12:23| afraid the Basement Tapes would so around the same time they were just like merging all of these videos on oh yeah is it common practice today I don't think so today like digital
01:12:34| evidence is crazy right we're like the Patriots in Super Bowl 41 know better yeah it's just the Eagles know they lost they lost another one we lost oh yeah Spygate
01:12:51| they had the tapes destroyed I still don't know why he did that like he could have just said no no one needs to see it no big deal it's over but instead he had the tapes destroyed
01:13:02| I'm sure the NFL how weird is that right we're gonna get into that Spygate is real anyway the the problem has been justified this past year there's a rematch and we all know how that ended I
01:13:14| thought you were talking about Karla Homolka there was a rematch was we going she survived but something I think that you guys might find interesting about Karla
01:13:29| Homolka after she was released she only spent 12 years in jail again so she was released probably in her early 40s I she struck a plea bargain on one yeah I guess the other guy but do
01:13:40| you guys um know about Luka Magnotta no so he was a he's Canadian and he killed somebody on like the internet live what and yeah I had he was he was doing like more and more like back when like
01:13:57| getting it was kind of new and had like those Gore websites everywhere like rotten calm and all that kind of mess well he was trying to make himself famous he'd applied to all these reality
01:14:07| TV shows on all the stuff and he's known for he killed a man and then raped his corpse live streamed it Wow but he said that he was like dating Karla Homolka and she was like boy you crazy no I'm
01:14:24| not but it's just interesting that he was trying to tie him to her before he had committed this crime and it's just a weird like double connection the serial killer like
01:14:35| everyone swaps to somebody else for some awful deed so real quick there's a so the sentencing of Mike men and women like overall there's a very gender bias against men or any like similar crimes
01:14:51| they give women 20% reduced sentences compared to men so not 20% more salary correct correct reduce anything so there's I mean men are obviously more violent they're more
01:15:09| prevalent more sexually disturbed but if you're having the same crime committed why do you think that women are being given reduced sentences and even like serial killers serial killers who get
01:15:22| out like why would you ever let a serial killer like into public again like it's not like they're weaker they might be older physically weaker but they're still capable a lot of these numbers I
01:15:35| was going to say I saw were like way lower than I thought they should be for every serial killer he got 38 years I was like he boiled like nine people yeah let's give this guy a hundred lashes
01:15:45| right now I don't care what kind of plea deal right you only got tried for two of them so it's two right but as far as the women get a new lesser sentence that's a thing
01:15:57| that um I think that women are dangerous time they are very scary but you guys blood count about Ruth Ruth Bader Ginsburg she's making fun of her yeah she listens to the podcast personal
01:16:12| friends of the podcast RB gene uh-huh got the Supreme Court I listened to her a million years ago because in a camber what state it was but basically the drinking limit for females was different
01:16:27| than male because they assumed that women were more responsible so they were like okay women can buy alcohol at 18 but men can't buy until they're 21 so that just meant that members were buying
01:16:37| alcohol for men and that was a thing what she said was this is inherently an injustice because you're saying and the way to fight that was to say because she was
01:16:48| for women's equality saying that this was unfair to men and it basically it's time and again we see women are supposed to be the more docile or sensitive the less capable the less violent sex and
01:17:00| it's just not true I mean I guess statistically yes but I mean not to the point where you could not serve a life sentence for murdering somebody but that's it's across the board not just
01:17:13| with murder but with anything we just assume women are as capable we underestimate them in every way even when it comes to fitting frame I don't underestimate them in crime yeah
01:17:26| I can't wait til one steals my car and wraps it around a pole and I go pin I was wrong way wrong that was so hot like a bad you just wrecked that man I wish I could see I mean you never know
01:17:40| as far as rehabilitation goes I mean the idea is like that's that's how we said our prison system up like that's not like if we say you're you did this crime you get 40 years that's just we assume
01:17:55| that sending somebody away to prison is supposed to rehabilitate them it's like a whole episode as far as right you don't I mean like we can get into rehabilitation isn't really
01:18:04| rehabilitation the crime rate isn't really the crime rate the justice system is not rigged well it is rigged but there's other things to talk about right I know I'm centigrade here's a question
01:18:15| for you guys it's more personal more weird more kind of how I wanted to go towards the end so they did all these Studies on the physical science and the mental brain scans that show psychopathy
01:18:29| family history all these signs that might say hey this person's liable to be a serial killer let's say they go even further by 2025 right they actually know by looking at a brain scan if you're a
01:18:44| serial killer or not what should they do to someone who hasn't committed any crimes but is verifiably has all the signs had a head injury to certain age and it's he's your cousin oh it is
01:18:59| Minority Report you're a little bit right yeah like what if we're do we stand on that so I think that some people have this psychotic psychopathy and it first person to mess it up I love
01:19:12| it so they like it helps them like if you're a doctor and you honestly you're not emotionally connected to your patient that's a good thing because then you can focus our surgeries yes you can
01:19:23| focus on the mechanical portions of like providing healthcare to somebody you're not emotionally connected to whether they survive or not you don't care about them do you think they're a piece of
01:19:33| meat and you're cutting them that's interesting which is someone with high psychotic you would say that yeah but it helps I mean it helps in certain situations it just doesn't help good
01:19:44| person deciding to cook other people say it could help we're not gonna say it helps it could help can we tell you performing surgery yeah there's lots of heartfelt surgeons who love their
01:19:55| patients like a varied and fine job yeah mm-hmm shedding a tear with her what would you do if you found that you had a high-risk move to the country variable yeah bury them very deep I mean I think
01:20:10| that's exactly it I mean that's why we when we talked we were talking about James Fallon like he lived his whole life just feeling these feelings and then when he found out he was like oh
01:20:19| but he doesn't mean that he felt any desire to hurt anybody hmm he still learned that what was right and what's wrong somehow that was still related to him and he got it whether or
01:20:31| not he was like this is right this is wrong but doing the wrong thing feels good and doing the good thing feels nothing you know like he just was he luckily grew up in a life that reinforce
01:20:42| positive behavior so Amelia you're saying all the research done all everything done will never be actually be able to tell who is going to be a serial killer correct I don't think so
01:20:52| so then why is that why bother I bother doing the research yeah um for the same reason that we want to know anybody friends why do you make human connection I mean once you find out I think it's
01:21:05| after the fact I mean and we can we get somebody there counseling with the ideas we don't like to diagnose children of psychopaths they have a specific name for it but there's
01:21:16| a way to help them grow and to not be you know terrible people when they grow up and if there's something to learn from somebody who's done something awful I think that we should take that
01:21:27| opportunity I don't disagree with any of that do you think we could redeem any of these people we were just talking about today whether it's the that the soap the human fat soap woman was her name Anna
01:21:41| didn't come across her I read about her I don't know where her name was though yeah she would um kill people she had 17 kids on four of them made a pass age four so she had a terrible life she
01:21:53| believed she was cursed she believed that her favorite son the one who lived to be the oldest he was like seven or eight for him to keep surviving sure to keep killing people whether it's because
01:22:04| they were like the principal at his school or whatever I didn't get into all the details she had to kill them to get rid of the body she would boil it and the superhot cauldron and then human fat
01:22:14| would rise to the top and she would turn them into soap and give them to her family and friends and then eventually there was so much stuff left over she would get a little bit of curl blood and
01:22:25| stuff and turn it into cakes I'm reading it to people oh yeah her kid she's like no no it's fine my kid and I had something else was gone I don't know it in that particular instance of lipid
01:22:40| exchange that's that's the most extreme right yeah um I don't know I don't know if I'm when you say redeem I don't think like any I mean the only people who can forgive them are their victims and their
01:22:51| families and so that's not possible but as far as rehabilitate I don't think in their current system no thinks the level of mental healthcare that would go into helping somebody be a functional human
01:23:04| being in society is something that we're not at and I can't recommend and also there's I think there's only so much you can do when someone becomes an adult so it has to be done early on so I think
01:23:15| the intervention period is passed okay so if we find out like that you're a psychopath and a serial killer it's too late we're going to have to give up on you
01:23:25| well don't kill me I don't believe in the death penalty you just put me away we just put you away for a while yeah can be like okay yeah three star three star hotel yeah that's fine so I can lie
01:23:41| down here yeah let's recap what we talked about I remember like torture and brutal killers serial killers I'll try it good friends are listen on the podcast
01:23:56| proposition 69 the CODIS I remember the CODIS yeah the DNA index system we talked about the prototype theory by Eleanor Rosch if you guys remember I wrote in my notes maybe I
01:24:10| didn't bring it up but that's fine we talked about it the FBI and Wikipedia we talked about both of them the media's obsession what's your crime they do they love it
01:24:26| so do we though I think there's a reason if we were to sum it up there's a reason we love this stuff right do you know what I thought about while watching all these videos there's
01:24:35| a reason you you and you I'm pointing in the direction you guys might be in there you all love this stuff because it's a little bit fantasy we play out where what will we do there were no rules and
01:24:49| we didn't care about people and there was god mode on and no one really got hurt in the end but we could do whatever for a little bit that is not why I watched this but then why do you watch
01:24:59| us I'm serious like honestly I am obsessed with like how people respond to things I'm just so interested in normal psychology like shut me Mar but you were all born as
01:25:10| babies and then we all went on very different paths and different things happen to ashore but like you know some somebody can have the exact same thing someone else might have been raped and
01:25:19| tortured and got pregnant at 14 and they didn't end up killing seven then what is the difference there I'm fascinated so what do you think it is I don't believe in evil so I think it has to be
01:25:32| situation a mix between situation and hmm I don't believe in genetics see the very opposite of what you just say I think there's no way my DNA would all scramble one way and I would say you're
01:25:46| gonna turn out to be X and I will turn out to be X I think everyone's varying control their own destiny whether you're pointed in one direction more than the other or you have
01:25:54| percentage points I you could argue all day I sure but I think ultimately I don't care what your DNA says I think people who who exhibit what we talked about there's something about them
01:26:06| that's either missing or extra and I don't know what it is and it fascinates me and I'm drawn to it and I want to know what they're thinking and a little little little part of me wonders if
01:26:17| they're just like f it what if there are no rules what if there's no heaven what there's no hell what if I'm just gonna do whatever the flying F I want by the
01:26:26| winds of my lust or my fancy or whatever my desire is and this is ultimately what what happens when we take away society and rules and this is what people would turn out to be not that they're heroes
01:26:40| or anything but they're yeah they're beyond the chains of the things I hold myself to I hold myself to the rules other people's feelings other people's emotions I'm not a sociopath but what is
01:26:55| the importance of that the continued success of the species good for me so sociopaths don't care about the continued success of the species I don't know fascinates me yeah it covers that
01:27:12| yeah well we do yeah wrap this up you have a favorite serial killer mm-hmm I think favorite not like again like you're gonna write letters or send your panties I just mean like you and have
01:27:27| you ever sent your panties do it through no I keep my panties to myself I can imagine that like if there's somebody that's like so methodical if they can out with the police and like they cover
01:27:40| up all the tracks there's something I wouldn't I don't know about sexy about that Oh Danny I would say stinker Dan loves a sexy over-thinker yeah it's sexy - yes I know it is yeah
01:27:50| outwitting somebody is is intellectually stimulating intellectually stimulating he's going sexy I'm gonna buy her that you got I know she's got someone in mind Oh me um I mean I I think I I like
01:28:10| oscillate between um it sounds cliche but Fundy is just like so interesting you've got so much levels and his story but off going between him and Dahmer I think I'm gonna be a basic serial
01:28:25| killer fan and just say between yeah I was going with Dahmer Dahmer's but I think I think the reason why Dahmer is appealing because he just seems so remorseful and fat and and bunny is the
01:28:39| opposite reason why I'm interested in him is because he's just like what I'm amazing and better than everybody and that's why I'm doing this I think that's also equally interesting it is one can
01:28:51| be that wildly different so ultimately we're drawing the serial killers not necessarily because we love the crimes but because we love their minds there's wonderful beautiful I don't know what's
01:29:04| going on in there people can't figure them out 3d people's greedy people we get I don't know I get that yeah jerks I get you know I mean passions you can understand yeah 100% these people okay
01:29:17| thanks you're right something crazy about it well lock your doors tonight folks close your windows check under your bed yeah check above your bed take your grip your
01:29:30| keys Thanks thanks for tuning in and listen to us we like it we like it again we got Amelia from the antimatter's podcast hi bean bean pod something like that you can say it again you do you
01:29:48| plug it I mean it's antimatter's you can find us on twitter at ship named Drake or just like Google antimatter spod cash you'll find us we're in sugar Oh thanks for joining us folks we like you
01:30:02| oh good night
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