Transcript of Episode 147 - Gaming Addiction
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00:00:09| who doesn't want a friend that's always there that never leaves them that's always consistent they always respond the same way they always make you feel a little bit good
00:00:18| about yourself they give you goals and you meet them you get new achievements and you feel like you've made you've made it you finally have someone something that
00:00:30| loves you but it's just a game it's just an illusion and you've spent all your time all your money on something that's just
00:00:39| nothing what do you do now so i'm dan and i'm nick folks we're old friends dissecting one topic at a time technology media we've got it all covered enjoyed it each
00:00:58| discussion here deep dive into our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects baby we don't pander to popular opinion you
00:01:09| might get a little bit dirty warning this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and it's for infotainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your
00:01:22| ear holes because we're going to fondle your follicles [Music] [Music]
00:01:42| get ready for this one all right so i'm dan well nick folks this is nuts are we really doing it on panters on gaming addiction factorial addiction
00:01:57| [Music] yeah i thought it was just one game you mean games in general one factorial two factorial three factorial oh my goodness
00:02:07| this could be bad what are we gonna do so i'll preface this uh we're the unpanders and uh i played this game for what says 66 hours in the past
00:02:19| two weeks is impossible but i probably didn't leave it running for some portion of that okay i was going to figure out your running time can you leave it running to
00:02:30| generate some kind of resources or something that'd be sneaky it'll make sense yeah and they by it'll be inherently obvious when i play this
00:02:37| i'll load this up and show you what i've done in the last 66 hours i haven't slept three days i've always wanted to watch you play factorios wow
00:02:47| expect oreos interesting that sounds like a great game yeah i'll preface this by let's bring out having family around constantly kids that don't go to daycare
00:03:04| counseling your face they're on your back they're watching something next to you you yearn for a little piece of like your own little island yeah the thing
00:03:13| you'd zone out into and i didn't have that for like three months so i couldn't find it and then like obviously games have this like completionist
00:03:22| perfectionist like ocd like i did it and it's done like aspect to them most of them do and i was searching for that in this game and i was like oh i like i
00:03:33| finally feel like i like perfected something and it's complete whereas like everything else in my life is just kind of like it just kind of goes and like you get
00:03:41| your show yeah you reach a certain point and it just keeps going and you're just like where's like the achievement where's the like the thing like you did it
00:03:50| like that it doesn't happen it doesn't happen when you get older something's up yeah i guess in real life you don't get that a lot of those do you no congratulations you graduated like 13
00:03:59| years ago and you're just like [ __ ] that might be the last thing you get right you're uh your graduation of some sorts congratulations you had a kid now you have to take care of it
00:04:09| congratulations that's i mean yeah you gotta raise but it's gonna drag down all your other races from now on until they're like no i just thought of that is this all
00:04:19| diminishing returns is that what this is going to end on is that what this is going to be all about is that what everything is i hope so it's not life all right i'm
00:04:26| not maybe i don't know i haven't figured it out yet so for the record i don't know if i said it i'm nick wow that'll be terrible anyway i hope you know that but
00:04:34| i definitely sent it okay good anyway um i've never played this game i've never really seen it uh it's on my wish list in case anyone really wants to buy it
00:04:44| for me if you do you'll have to buy me free time so don't buy it for me free time just on my wishlist i'm more looking for the free time to play it than i am the game itself
00:04:54| so little word to the wise we're gonna check it out here if uh we can do this technologically i'm gonna i'm gonna pretend to do a tutorial here i'm gonna i should have
00:05:03| said i'm just gonna do a quick tutorial but the beginning gets you a good feel so let me switch around here just bring this audio to this just like
00:05:11| that there's a slight background music that makes it kind of curious which i think i didn't listen to any of the music as i did this like i had no uh earpieces at all when i
00:05:21| played the game which makes it kind of interesting that i didn't know what the music of the game was like and yeah that's part of the game yeah
00:05:30| it's never it's great or not no i'm just this is the first time i'm listening to it now i don't think the game actually has audio i think it's just like you
00:05:37| building stuff for the same thing i'm just making this up now okay so let me uh share my screen with nick oh let me close that one out there wrong button let me click there
00:05:49| one second and then i'm going to switch over to this one with game oh that's recursive logic here it's going to confuse you and you can see this right
00:06:00| nick yeah i can see it i can see myself in like reverse slow counter motion making sure we got this yeah we're all good here all right i'm
00:06:07| going to load this game now i played this once before 10 years ago and i have a bunch of saves that were half from 10 years when this game come
00:06:16| out i started like 2013 so maybe seven years ago i was just curious by the way it was made by a guy younger than me
00:06:24| when he was younger than me now and it made like three million and i think he retired once he finished this game not looking good for you here that's all i'm going to say okay
00:06:34| so it gives you a little tool tip when you first start your whole thing you see this boiler yeah so when you first start out you have these minerals there's like
00:06:44| coal copper uh iron is blue it's over there and you get stone which i don't know gives a [ __ ] about stone anyway you move these things around and
00:06:53| eventually you like you make it so you have machines that take care of all the [ __ ] that you need to do machines that take care of your machines
00:07:00| yeah the way you first start is you have to like mine something like that right really tedious it takes a lot of time yeah one
00:07:09| cold one so you should also invest in a better graphics card i'm just saying this game doesn't get any better sorry so what these things do is that they
00:07:22| automatically mine and they feed each other so this is the first like automated thing right because now it's it's mining coal and then it produces coal and the arrow
00:07:32| means that it gives it coal and that one's mining coal so it gives it more coal just reciprocal over and over again warm or cool and then you have to grab it
00:07:41| and when you grab it you start to build more of these things and then you put more of these things in ways that like they feed coal and they take copper or iron or whatever the hell you're doing
00:07:52| so in short this game plays on some sort of like subconscious ocd of like oh it'll take care of itself right
00:08:02| perfectionist type thing you have to have all your angles and the quickest way to do something the most proficient way yeah and all the ratios you're like oh
00:08:10| this produces three of something but this uses four of something i need exactly eight of these things to make it and it's like your whole brain goes
00:08:18| crazy because you're trying to balance things and you can already see like there's conveyor belts like automatically producing stuff and i
00:08:27| don't know why those aren't on that's bothering me so much they should be producing stuff but they're not i don't know why not produce stuff okay nevermind i'm going to skip over past
00:08:36| that so anyway you first start out and then you finally get like these little machines that produce like more material and then they pump stuff into
00:08:46| uh like a conveyor belt which then keeps moving keeps moving keeps moving just ignore all this other stuff just keeps moving and then finally
00:08:56| it comes down to these machines which are fed with coal and uh copper and then they produce plates and just watch it now for a moment okay
00:09:08| it's like a refined version of copper there's a slight background noise of all these things moving and it's just like it's very serene so they all do this they all like have
00:09:18| refined stuff so this is like iron and then iron can become steel so you have like refined refined double refine and then you have like stone somewhere that does the same thing
00:09:28| it makes like a stoner stone and then a stone stone stonier stone of course what did i expect yeah and then they
00:09:35| like go into base materials so like that they all go to the central unit or something yeah so like you build these like assemblers and then it becomes like wire and then
00:09:46| wire like with mixed other materials which are all these little like these little things like grab them a lot of copper mixed wire let me tell you that yeah oh yeah you can sell me
00:09:55| some of this someday oh how many how many of these are how much does that cost well it depends on how many feet are on that reel and what kind of gauge we're
00:10:02| talking about augmented stranding size and then a couple other options i can get into are they shielded or not i can't wait this is enthralling oh my goodness
00:10:13| so these things like they all build up you know you get you're watching this stuff go and the reason it's all building is like upgrade some crappy research which is right here
00:10:22| and this pisses me off because i thought i was going to complete it but these go to infinity i see that little infinity sign means you can upgrade it indefinitely
00:10:31| [ __ ] you stupid game i was like i finally completed something in life and i was nope nope not quite so we're just going to
00:10:39| sit here and watch the machines for a moment all you at the same time so what what do you take from this initially nick you're just like okay that's nice
00:10:48| well two things one i think the video feed is a little stilted or like jump-starty like it's a little yeah which means it's not perfect so i can't
00:11:00| going along i get that i get the idea for it though yeah um and it reminds me of uh i'm trying to think it reminds me of um doctor mario popping those pills no no
00:11:11| not talk to mario who is an unlicensed physician you might never mind everyone don't believe him he doesn't have a degree i've never seen it at least uh what
00:11:19| what's the game uh warcraft meets because like just you know yeah excuse me oh jesus christ starcraft because like you build bigger things to
00:11:32| mine more material and essentially it's a feedback loop so you can get bigger and bigger stores and supplies but also combined with like maybe a
00:11:40| little bit of tetris maybe a little bit of um ah there's a game that's on the tip of my tongue and i don't know what it is but it reminds me of it
00:11:48| this game it has the um kind of the backdrop of an older game like um command and conquer or something yeah um i think it may be some sort of sims roller coaster type thing yep
00:12:01| like instead of people um enjoying the rides and giving you positive feedback and you reinvesting into the people reinvesting into the rides reinvesting no no
00:12:09| you trap them in a corner and then you milk them for all their worth yeah well that's what you're doing with the resources here correct yes yes you're milking the crap out of them
00:12:18| so yeah so you get to a point where you're just like building build all this right now yeah it was incredibly quick the way you built it all because i can't
00:12:28| and i know you've played the game enough and like kind of perfected it so you have a system for this this is your system i assume there's so no
00:12:36| the weirdest thing was that when i first started this game seven years ago i didn't know anything and when i started it last week i still didn't know anything
00:12:47| like i had a sense that like yeah this green circuit thing and the red circuit thing like they were the most precious thing like i knew like i had to make a lot of those
00:12:54| [ __ ] those little pieces of shits they take forever and they like everything so you'll see i'm just gonna there's like four different pieces of space but
00:13:03| i didn't remember how all it fit together other than like i knew there was an assembler and like i knew there were different like upgrades the only thing i remembered in general
00:13:12| was like hey there's people that went way too far with this game and like i started to do that and then it sucked my soul dry because i was like yeah you could make
00:13:21| it so it's like all linear and crap but it's not the fun part of this game is like oh [ __ ] like i need a resource and i don't have it yet yeah and then like i
00:13:28| have to squeeze it in and try to make it all fit and work and this looks all organized and stuff but like you get to like with squirt like look at the squirrely little like
00:13:36| piece of [ __ ] right here like what does that make that makes no sense at all like why did i do that it's just like i need to get it on like that side of the conveyor belt but oh i
00:13:43| don't have a way of doing that but then oh wait this is other materials over here yeah and then it all goes over here so like this is the beginning base where i was like okay i'm gonna make
00:13:51| this and then like these things are like upgrade pieces and then like oh wait you gotta provide power so it's like producing all sorts of crazy steam and [ __ ] and then you're
00:14:00| like oh wait i ran our resources so i need to pump more crap in there more steam more resources more power and then oh solar panels okay yeah i
00:14:08| want more steam more power more power more power it gets crazy you're you're like you go back and you're like oh [ __ ] i have a problem
00:14:15| i know there's [ __ ] trains in this thing they're like bringing resources to you unloading stuff and let's just pop on this thing for two seconds here
00:14:23| so you can like everything's customizable and you're just like boom just drive this way so you get on train and this is the second place i went to
00:14:30| so this is it might be a little longer than i expected it's going a little slow it's gone it's got some materials so you you know there's a good there's something about
00:14:38| driving on the train that you're just like okay this is relaxing for like half a second so i'll jump out here for two seconds and i was like oh i need this resource
00:14:45| which requires water and like oil which is only in this spot so i'll build the train out here yeah that took about like you know six hours or some crap
00:14:53| i don't care anymore who cares about that shitty spot so wait that area took six hours ish roughly uh i would probably say like realistically it's probably more like
00:15:01| three but like figuring out like can i go there without being attacked and like do i need to build any other crap and like oh i need more don't see any
00:15:11| attacking so oh that's what these bug things are oh well how do you know about bugs i didn't tell you i'm seeing that in the office i also noticed that
00:15:20| yeah and i also noticed that one of your upgrades was for uh robot companions or something like that and like relationships companions or somethings
00:15:28| yeah and i was like why would you need that there's one right now look at that oh i just killed it oh there so there's an element to this that i'll finish it off with
00:15:37| um but yeah those are all dead bugs so like i also remember that like i build like you can you can automate things in such a way i move your face here
00:15:46| that like you can do these little like blueprint things and then you can copy and it's like okay i just copied that and then you want to build it here
00:15:53| right okay okay all right so that's like you can skip over things so if i were to build uh let me just do it over over the bugs yeah you can just like get rid of those bugs but like wait wait
00:16:04| wait this is a nuts that's part of it like you don't know this game but like if you put this over here like yeah that's legal
00:16:11| right and then boom these little robots come out and build it for you and so your workers your crew are robots so you use your resources to pay for them
00:16:22| or fuel them or whatever yeah okay and then they can destroy things too so you don't get those in the beginning but i knew to cheat and give myself
00:16:31| those and i was like [ __ ] clicking on all this crap like imagine how long it would have taken to do that even again yeah all of this
00:16:40| yeah so skipping ahead to this this is like the coup de gras like this is the like i'm going to zoom out here
00:16:48| this is nuts like it's a circuit board this is what that is like it's mining [ __ ] it's pumping [ __ ] it's creating more of these freaking green things
00:16:59| because you use a billion of them to make more red things which make bloom work blue things which then the blue things go all the way over there to make more stuff
00:17:07| and oh there's another train but that one's faster because it's nuclear powered and then worse of course it is folks it's nuclear power
00:17:15| and then i don't take pride in this but there's like rockets and there's satellites and that's your end goal get off the planet you're infested by bugs and you
00:17:23| get off the planet you're also producing a lot of like uh pollution where the bugs don't like that yeah i figured that's steam and oh so that
00:17:31| drives the bugs crazy and you produce all the steam and [ __ ] so the bigger you get the more attacked by bugs you'll get so you have to divert your resources
00:17:39| into defending your resources and your things yes yes you know that's all feedback loop yes of course you get stuck in a giant loop where you're like
00:17:49| oh well you know i wish i had more of that white stuff oh but there's only two i wish i could fill up like all this pink like or stuff and i'm just gonna drive all the way over here
00:17:58| and i made this all but the whole base oh there's oil and stuff and then this is like you get you you get the feel of like oh this stuff is like oh it's petering
00:18:09| out like i'm not filling all this stuff up and there's like a ratio and like i wish it was all going really fast and then like going faster and then you just end up sitting
00:18:19| and staring at just like this stuff just watching it like try to fill up weird because this looks like work to me exactly work there were points when i was actually
00:18:31| legitimately like this is like a waste of my time why am i playing work you were you were literally streamlining a process you were literally doing
00:18:40| what most jobs in america are streamlining processes this is more difficult than most jobs logistics yeah i mean it literally is job
00:18:49| like you're doing logistics you're doing streamlining your resources you're doing payroll you're accounting you're trying to figure out what you're spending your
00:18:58| most on how you can cut your resources what you can do to like defund a different area you're doing like that's what the sims is again essentially and victoria
00:19:08| excuse me i'm not saying it's not oh what the [ __ ] happened to here anyway all those damn bugs you control one guy yeah you're just one guy the whole time
00:19:18| you're actually running you didn't see that because it was crowded in like machines you were that crowded you were just splitting around oh my god dude what is
00:19:26| this area nuclear resources so it like creates these little like fuel rods which are really rare they pump into here you create heat it's more efficient in clean steam to
00:19:36| dissipate the heat yeah and then these are generators and just skipping over all this stuff because no one cares about factorio because it's an old
00:19:43| game and it looks like [ __ ] nowadays um yeah so i eventually spent that much time doing all of this this is the base i just figured out you can zoom in on top
00:19:56| so like all of that yeah yeah what was that all the bugs oh is that over there those are all but it's not the red not the red the um the yellow things the caution signs or
00:20:06| the settings that's like the robots like don't have a material to replace it so it tells you yeah like there's there's a blueprint for it and if your
00:20:17| robots see that it's damaged they'll repair it or they'll replace it if they're in range i don't know why they don't i don't get it
00:20:24| wow i just left that blink because it drives me nuts and gets under my skin and i'm just like everything's blinking i don't have that hell yeah it makes [ __ ] off your skin
00:20:36| it makes you have to like try to repair something oh interesting see that little bullet oh there's an attack yeah the best part um and that's another thing with this
00:20:47| game is like you don't get the satisfaction of killing um because your robots kind of do it for you robots kind of do it for you
00:20:54| automatically and it's like the bugs aren't very challenging like they're in don't have like a super ai it's expected like it's sure a game of 10 years ago doesn't feel
00:21:04| like i don't think even like the ai feels like it's tricky at all anyway but if you added that element to it wouldn't it just be more work
00:21:13| more frustrating yeah you might feel more uh rewarded maybe if you completed it yeah yeah you might feel like i conquered it i don't know that
00:21:24| i feel like i conquer a game anymore i don't know like a single player game i don't know this is like everquest so then i guess this boils down to like gaming addiction
00:21:35| and requests i played for like 72 days on a single character wow i can't even that's back in like like the early 2000s when you required a constant
00:21:48| internet connection to play the game oh wow he has like a dial up like that's the time on a phone it's crazy jesus that is nuts it's one character and like my other character i
00:21:57| probably played i have a special thing that like lasers things i can't get through this damn forest the best the one that bug stupid forest destroy it with
00:22:05| all destroy it with fire you can do that what grenades yeah anyway i'm just trying to show you how uh this is like the last two minutes of the
00:22:16| game but yeah i played for like 72 days i probably played like over 100 100 days of like everquest which i understand it because like it's your avatar it's your secure space you
00:22:28| have your own little like world and like you can improve yourself right you're constantly trying to improve yourself sure i i didn't do that with that game
00:22:38| but uh skyrim same idea yeah skyrim is the same thing like oh and try this new sword to see how it feels the most uh the i'm gonna finish with is
00:22:47| like i conquering this game is like the little blast like that just killed a base because it had these like artillery things
00:22:57| and it just killed the bugs there so like my suit will kill them but the most rewarding part i found was that i had a bunch of like artillery on this side like these
00:23:07| bugs can never bother me for some reason like you get demented when you play these games and you're like oh i want to um what is your inventory about trouble
00:23:16| i'm going to invite trouble your inventory is insane you can never find anything either even though it highlights it um i see you can you can use the artillery to
00:23:26| fire on anybody and like so you're trying to find trouble you're trying to find something yeah if you make you feel alive makes me feel more powerful there's poor
00:23:35| little bugs how dare there's children bugs running around they're just playing in the fields in the middle of the alleys and then you can just like
00:23:43| bomb the crap out of them and this is the final like hey i got you guys like screw this game you can just like fire as many as you want until you run out of bullets
00:23:52| and it's just like unloading on the on the bug colonies right there and they're trying to flee this is like them trying to run away yeah it's smaller yeah yeah
00:24:00| breaking apart and i'll just i'll just yeah it's just so it's weird because it's just little blocks and it makes you feel powerful and but it's so like there's nothing
00:24:12| tangible there can you zoom can you zoom in on them or no oh yes i can i guess i can because i have a little radar so that's great i mean there's got to be
00:24:21| a lot of dead bucks over there regardless your gpu can handle it oh [ __ ] dude oh dude whole families of bugs getting just rocked
00:24:35| because i kind of feel bad for the bugs i don't know why okay let's uh let's get out of this game here and more bugs when you think about it you got a lot of
00:24:42| copper you got a lot of pollution they're just trying to live their life and here you are firing on them with full caliber who knows what
00:24:49| okay so did i where how was my time on that one let me see how much time i spent in that game we okay yeah so that's we probably did that
00:25:01| for maybe 20 minutes there's a five-minute intro but that's also what happens it's like you get in that world and you come out and it's hours later
00:25:09| and you go [ __ ] like glad i didn't have anything to do or maybe i did not care i think we touched on it with ocd where it affects
00:25:18| part of your brain where you have to keep doing something or you have to fix something we also touched on an escapism where you you have to
00:25:26| get away from something or you have to put yourself in a new life in a new world immerse yourself in everything have we talked since you played um the game with the uh the fish heads and
00:25:38| everything we talked about that didn't we we talked we yeah you mentioned a while ago i think with escapism i mentioned i didn't know yes i didn't know if you
00:25:46| had talked about it since what remains of you thank you yes i couldn't remember the actual name of your struggle in there that was one of my favorite i want to
00:25:55| tell people that but you can't convey it i know you have to you have to actually physically play that game because there's a playing the game while chopping fish out
00:26:04| yeah and a storytelling element and an artistic element like the art i like how the art starts really crappy yeah and like 2d and like you can barely
00:26:13| see anything and then by the end it's like super 3d and gorgeous graphics beautiful and you can barely see the fish heads there you're still
00:26:21| topping yeah you're moving your right hand to chop fish hands the whole time for fish heads yeah yes and you're still chopping those fish heads and there's a
00:26:29| song playing and i actually enjoy the song and i feel like i was a king yes uh up till the end right yeah you're still uh on share screen you'll probably switch it down for you yeah
00:26:41| sorry i forgot it's good i don't care i just don't want you to you know everyone to figure out your secrets like big big what's that big big
00:26:50| wienerporn.com [Laughter] and then um but yeah you're right like the what reigns of edith finch like that's
00:27:10| that storyline i think that story out of all of them was by far the best because a it pulls you in because you're doing something monotonous that you
00:27:19| ignore while you're doing like into the story you are him 100 yes and it's funny because that's that's the best a video game can be
00:27:30| a video game can add its greatest ability to make you become a character forget that you're the kind in doing a monotonous thing yes it's both yes so like most video games
00:27:41| are kind of monotonous what you're getting at is like and you can have fun with a monotonous game we would not say otherwise because
00:27:47| good lord knows you love some monotonous games but that is like peak video game where you combine a little bit of like freedom and a little bit of
00:27:56| there's no freedom i mean actually technically you can't not win do you know what i mean yeah it's a walking simulator so it's the ultimate like
00:28:05| just press forward or left and you're going to win like you can't forward the story by losing light you just like you two keys just like push those two keys and then
00:28:15| you're done if you really if you want to boil it down yeah but it was but it's the most fun pressing two keys like technically like three or four for that
00:28:24| one yeah oh boy oh yeah you might have to go back there's no walking simulator three yes but honestly that's crazy that that's the best part of video
00:28:36| games and it's three buttons and you can't lose and there's no timing there's no timing to it right you just know chop the fish for you the game waits for
00:28:48| you like a good friend like a good friend so you mentioned at the beginning it's like what is a good game what's a bad game
00:28:56| what's what's monotonous and what's not i mean so i'll go back to like everquest mmorpg and i the reason why i thank him so much is a i didn't have a driver's license so
00:29:10| i couldn't go anywhere it was probably like i probably started in the middle of summer but i'll say middle of winter it's very dark and cold and it kept you
00:29:19| warm because the computer was putting out a lot of heat that's the craziest thing i ever heard for real nice toasty room and wait did it really yeah i did
00:29:30| and i had a nice hot room every every night i wonder if that messes with your psychology a little bit of course yeah that's weird yeah well
00:29:40| also like like seeing i don't know actually going to visit friends like required effort and school night like if you had free time
00:29:48| to kill like what were you gonna do you're gonna what play a board game or spend time with your family or watch a movie or play a game it's like which one of those
00:29:55| i probably pick play game more on rack yeah um my son is addicted to video games essentially i mean he's not addicted to it but i mean he likes it better than everything else
00:30:05| and can i argue with him like it's like you have to trump his addiction with better addictions but like think of the addictions i can offer him he's like i want to play um mario kart 8
00:30:16| or uh whatever and i'm like oh that's a sweet game and he's like or overwatch and i'm like yeah that's a cool game anyways and i'm like but your mother may think you should play
00:30:25| number one yeah even even worse like you played in front of him and he's like okay what does it do your imagination is the key
00:30:36| you move a piece on the board and roll this dice and he's like this is [ __ ] corny he's like i can't play the game and i'm like no we're having
00:30:52| fun tonight so like you can't go backwards in evolution or technology like he wouldn't even have fun playing nes games like he's playing
00:31:03| like i just mentioned like overwatch and like minecraft and stuff where you can build and create and do all sorts of crazy stuff and have crazy stories and amazing graphics
00:31:12| and it's like how do we tell a kid how do i tell a kid that like no don't play games which are fun and awesome and have cool graphics and like
00:31:30| flashy stuff but do something less fun and i'm admitting it right now like the things i wanted to do are less fun but i'm like do less fun things because
00:31:40| experience you're going to override your serotonin think of that you're never going to feel happy again that's why i kind of feel like when my kids are addicted to youtube it's like
00:31:49| you you accept that as like reality and it's like the laugh tracks on that creep me out it's like intentionally designed to be
00:31:57| colorful and bright and action filled and like it's it doesn't hurt you at all it never hurts you you're you're in a safe space it's like this is not
00:32:04| this is not reality and like sometimes the things that hurt you make you better they build i don't disagree with you at all but i also say isn't that what half the games we played
00:32:14| are designed for or half the shows we grew up on so i mean how is it different is it better at doing that so it's like scary because it's like
00:32:23| more this is like perfect well after a killing machine for serotonin we're creating these games and youtube videos that are so good at entertaining that there's an endless stream of them
00:32:36| and we figured out the key to making a perfect game or a perfect youtube video that will entertain anyone from age 3 to 33. and guess what we're giving them to your
00:32:45| kids now and i'm like it scares me because i didn't have that until i don't know two five years ago 10 years ago
00:32:56| stream of entertainment like when was the first time we actually considered it like when did netflix actually like stop sending you stuff in the mail somewhere somewhere i forgot netflix did
00:33:07| that dude wild that's crazy yeah well somewhere between netflix and youtube and probably you know probably youtube i mean because that's what kids start on
00:33:18| right is when we had this stream of perfect when we want it how we want it give it to me and it ties into why we love video games
00:33:29| which is you push a button it does what you want it gives you just enough surprise i guess to keep you moving forward but also
00:33:39| just enough what you think it's going to give you higher levels better score more money to buy new outfits more power and it's weird i don't know if that's
00:33:52| what you want so much as it's what you think you want i don't know i feel like the reason why i played so much everquest was that
00:34:01| there was an infrastructure there and there was a they called it a guild where you had like maybe like there's probably like 50 people in the guild and there might have been like
00:34:10| actual like online friends which i think now is like more commonplace that's passe now back then that's that's a rarity yeah that's a pedophile is what my mom
00:34:23| would say so [Laughter] but you could have been yeah it could have been but you know i there's there's a network
00:34:32| there that's like larger than your own and i think back then it's hard to justify that as like a real social network and you know i think
00:34:41| now people see people as like if they're an online presence like they could be a legitimate person before i don't think you could envision a like an online person as a legitimate
00:34:50| person they were just like especially out of my parents minds like they're just some fictitious character like they were a bot
00:34:57| here's what's going to cook your noodle we could probably do a whole episode on it but like i have a screen name from aol or like from whatever
00:35:05| also my twitch username summarize it what was it wait what was the beginning of it your aol my first one was nick berg after goldberg 13. yeah it was
00:35:17| my very first one no one even knew it uh so then i changed it to soul reverse six without the second a uh if you recall yeah yeah yeah now you do
00:35:27| um but anyway like now it's even crazier because that's your twitch name and that's your like uh it's locked which name yeah yeah it's great it's like your fake fake
00:35:38| identity but it's also more real now because if you just had one name that was like soul reaver six and you're on bodyweightliftforums.com or whatever
00:35:47| like you know posting like this is [ __ ] up but if you look him up you'll find his twitter you'll find like his facebook uh you probably won't find his
00:35:56| facebook you'll find like all these other his instagram maybe is one letter off like do you know what i mean exactly you have all these presences and
00:36:07| all these media accounts and reddit and whatever and you can literally find these people and it's the same person in five or six or seven or eight
00:36:15| different realms and it kind of makes them a more filled out person like closer to a real person than what your parents think is a pedophile
00:36:22| because just one guy with a weird name posting on a workout website or whatever on how to get some gains so we're becoming more and more
00:36:32| real online we're becoming more and more an entity in the digital world and that's why it's weird that we're getting more consumption from there like starting with my [ __ ] kid he
00:36:45| he's five he has he has a gmail he has a switch account he has a he does not have a youtube i think he has one more account i forget what it is
00:36:55| oh he's gonna have these things and he's gonna inherit them but exactly he didn't pick them he's five he could barely spell but i had to
00:37:03| make it for him so he can play and find his goddamn friends who's like a 12 year old he knows and an eight-year-old he knows who are never going to play with him but i'm not going
00:37:11| to you know what i mean we can have your friends unlike you yeah yeah well they don't want to play with a five-year-old who doesn't have a
00:37:18| microphone even if he did what do we say like it's weird yeah exactly but in a year or two is my kid gonna be playing with other five and six year olds or
00:37:27| six and seven at that point yeah probably he's playing overwatch he's already talking about like making killer head shots
00:37:34| and his favorite things to me and it's not it's a little disturbing from the whole violence and video games things but he's he's not a violent kid like i don't
00:37:42| think he's whatever what's funny to me is that his favorite memories now and he's only five are funny things that happen in video games
00:37:52| that happened that i was there for or someone else was there for or he remembers and it happened to me when i was 14 or that overnight raid and we [ __ ] and
00:38:03| the game glitched out and we did this and like i'm laughing but he's only five or six or he's gonna be six and he's gonna be like dada i hit a
00:38:12| match where i went use my shield to stab people or smash people and i'm gonna be like that's so messed up and then i'll remember exactly what mine you did
00:38:25| it just had stabs only and i'm like you're just doing it younger and it's weird i don't know if it's cool or not i don't know if it's the same it's just they're
00:38:34| younger do you think they level up faster they'll be just like kind of jaded by the time they hit their teens there's like uh
00:38:41| come on i kind of think that because i mean human nature is always going to be human nature it's always going to win but even as the technology gets better like
00:38:50| they're going to be like oh i used to play mmos back when i was a kid and that's him at 12 whereas when i was like do you know what i mean like the next generation yeah yeah the
00:39:02| next generation is just going to talk about video games like a commodity like like do you already notice when you read a review on ign or something it's like
00:39:10| it's an mmo that's basically this game meets this game and this is a glitch and this is the caveat this is the feedback loop and it
00:39:19| tells you right there whereas when i was 12 and i played a video game i didn't think about the feedback loop i didn't think about whether it was an mmo or not or do you
00:39:28| know what i mean i feel like they're rarer and they're newer like they're fresher like you had like an original it was like the first
00:39:35| original it was like awesome it was so cool now it's like this is made by you know they made this game this game this game and you know they made this
00:39:44| game yeah coming up it's just free ps4 ps5 it's using it's using this engine right here remember this engine it made like seven
00:39:51| games and like i get it like financially that makes sense but but it's not like video games are as mysterious or rare or
00:40:03| almost like a thing right they're a thing we consume and we enjoy but they're a feedback loop they're kind of like we know we're getting from them we
00:40:14| expect what we're getting from them we already know the spoilers we know the cheats we know what's going to happen at the end but we consume them anyway because like
00:40:21| i want that have you played any vr games no i actually haven't gotten it now any vr have you yeah my buddy got one and he he set it up uh his oculus rift he set it up and like
00:40:35| he had a free room so he had a room entirely dedicated to vr which i think is going to be the future i think people will have a room dedicated to like video games it could
00:40:42| be okay and uh there were two games that i remember there's one like a zombie game where you're in a field and you're spinning
00:40:50| into like 360 degrees and you're shooting as they come at you so you're constantly spinning and shooting spinning and shooting and
00:40:57| trying to like take down the big guy who's coming at you you got to shoot him in certain spot and the craziest part is that you're so like your brain is so engaged
00:41:08| by the time you're done shooting you have no clue like where are you direction yeah of course not dude of course and it i mean that's the
00:41:17| simplest version of what's going on but like you could be in like the corner of the room like you could like i've seen people like punch the wall by accident
00:41:25| it like warns you but it is like it is so it's it's not even a great game but your brain just makes it rain by a lot
00:41:36| yes it's super engaging your brain because i think that's what video games are getting good at they're they're getting good at being entertaining whether or not that's good
00:41:45| or not is a whole different thing yeah hey whether it entertains the ocd sections the action sections the horror sections uh
00:41:54| you just tap in i mean it's the same video games are the new media to consume yeah i mean because they're like tvs and movies like do what genre do you want to watch uh like
00:42:04| tv and movies are so good so are friggin video games right imagine if you could like vr of a movie and like just like try to oh be a part of it or change the outcome
00:42:14| yeah or look around the corner and be like no no yeah you're in romantic comedy and you're like anyway so i'm gonna decide to have sex
00:42:22| with your sister let's see what happens or like you're in an action movie and like the guy has a gun and he says what do you think i'm going
00:42:31| to do punk and you shoot yourself in the head what happened i have no idea like that literally makes me go what the hell would happen that would be
00:42:41| amazing i think can't wait i think that's the beauty of video games versus any other media you consume is that you control yeah you control this outcome
00:42:50| you put an input and you get something back do you ever play the stanley parable the stanley parable yeah no half-life engine it's like
00:43:01| you're an office worker and he wakes up from his office one day and everyone's gone and you leave the office and there's a narrator the whole time and you
00:43:09| choose what to do there's all these doors you can go through and says stanley chose the door on the left and you can choose the door on the right and there and he goes
00:43:17| i said the door on the left and a new door will appear and you can choose whether to go through that or go back and essentially what happens is there's like 50 to 70 different endings to this
00:43:29| game and they all end with stanley dying or being trapped or something happens to him terribly because he either ignores the narrator or he doesn't but it's kind
00:43:39| of cool you should you just google that one you might like the stanley cup the stanley parable and write that down well we should capture it on video and then like put in a podcast or something
00:43:48| so that i can let's do it later very funny i just i haven't beaten all the ways to do it and it takes long to get to
00:43:55| like say 20 minutes in and then choose an ending so it's like i don't know where the cutoffs are but i would like to explore all the endings is there a way to win
00:44:08| yeah there actually is one single way yeah there is but that's not the funnest way don't you read it in nintendo power and figure it out no i think i figured this one out by
00:44:19| myself you turn off the machine and go out into the open world and like that's your reward but it's not as rewarding as say making the narrator
00:44:28| make a video game because he's aware you're in a video game and make a new one where a baby is on fire or something in the background he's like is this what you wanted
00:44:37| stanley stanley would you like a game like this instead and it's like a baby crawling through fire and like all this weird [ __ ] and you're
00:44:46| like whoa so you can't even shoot or anything you can only press a button or walk so it's pretty hilarious wow but anyway like that's that's the beauty
00:44:57| of video games they're [Music] somewhere imagination just crapping images all over you but it's what you put into it
00:45:06| and what it gives you back which you don't get from let's say movies and stuff you can't input into a movie or a tv show and get a different answer
00:45:14| or a different response tickles the itch it kind of does don't get me wrong you mentioned earlier they're kind of monotonous like you can do
00:45:22| whatever and expect you know what to expect it's a program there's nothing like yeah like factorio is a pyramid on top of a pyramid atomic pyramid and you're just
00:45:33| building more pyramids until you get to the peak which is not a peak it's just dull edge pyramid you're right around here it's duller and duller until you're like
00:45:43| what am i doing which really leads me into like i was playing this game and i just like i did it because i was stuck at my desk with my kids sitting like
00:45:54| standing there watching youtube and i was like i want to do something but i want to escape like i watch movies enough i listen to music
00:46:01| enough it's the thing that's just like i can be interactive with it and express some sort of creative nerve that i have
00:46:10| so why not just do it but then doing it doesn't really lead to any satisfaction so it's not really like i'm like getting myself here this way i think it does while you're playing
00:46:22| but i think the more you play it the less the more reflective you become and you're like uh well and the higher the reward is like
00:46:32| you know that it's like 90 percent of games right now on phones are oh like what suck about that yes like a clash of clans version or
00:46:42| like the shittiest version possible either way and clash of clans was only fun because of the social aspect we had an actual clan when you was hilarious you felt the pressure of
00:46:52| people watching you that was the best that's the pinnacle it's like you had to beat this one guy and you had to use all your resources to do it in a sequence and yeah yeah there's a
00:47:02| there's time involved that like you had to do it like you could have just dropped that thing right there and you remember you could spam hogs
00:47:10| yeah that felt so good that did feel really good they eventually fixed it a little bit but that spamming hogs was one of the greatest feelings in the world just
00:47:19| up right and then we just jump over all the walls and just start hammering and then the one you yeah bombs is what got them right yeah yeah they up the bombs yeah
00:47:29| yup against that but it was so rewarding to like manage the clan and like tell people like okay hit this guy and then like have what one thing left to like one hit left
00:47:41| you have this you have one hit left you have to hit number 18 and then would they default would they not do it would they listen to you would they do
00:47:50| it and fail like a number four hitting an 18 like a jlo or something like that you know yeah it was i missed
00:48:00| that there's like there's it was a glory days yeah because i don't think you get that [Laughter] there were people on our clan that were
00:48:12| there for months that were totally like splinter cells or just kids or um what was it the rich big breast is eight australian woman
00:48:21| oh oh yes yes yes and then there's like these guys from um turkey there's like a group of like three of them from turkey if you remember them they were really good but
00:48:30| they were just like arrogant and they yeah they disappear so what's what's interesting with that game is that that game caused me to bot
00:48:41| that was the first game no [ __ ] i think that was my very first like actual true bot that was like real time so if that game didn't exist i would
00:48:52| never get back to programming i wouldn't have the job i have now so props to that game i also like develop like i don't know a dozen other bots to take
00:49:00| care of all these other things just like factorio automate the [ __ ] out of it i wouldn't have that without the game inspiring me to do something that was just like
00:49:09| let's do this thing because it you know it makes it makes sense in my brain to help other people so let's like make this thing happen
00:49:22| you want hogs what are you trying to get what um what did you have to type that was remind me because it was i'll remember as soon as you tell me it was all the
00:49:33| characters like that you could order a one and a zero i understood that but it was an order of did you have to type something before that
00:49:41| was the chain to command it was there something to start it so there's for the people who have no [ __ ] clue what you're talking about is that there are certain key commands that you could
00:49:50| type in and it would like be like what do you want and it would like tell you like it would it would detail this stuff in chat be like it'd be like a little manual
00:49:57| that opens up and people are used to bots now but it didn't exist for clash of clans until i made it and then it was like yeah i forget i think it was
00:50:06| like i forget what i made it i don't remember but it doesn't matter it's like i was trying to get nostalgic there's no way that i'll remember
00:50:15| that that detail because i i forget those things those things go in the trash in my brain i don't they're my favorite parts and then i remember like hogs like the 0-000
00:50:27| what i feel the best about is when i see someone request what was asked and it completely fills it in half a second faster than a human being could yeah 100
00:50:38| because you is did you also build your farm so that it would have uh equal amount of everything kind of yeah i had enough to fill up like one or two people entirely so if like
00:50:48| two people needed to hit immediately like you one minute to go like do i have the resources can i get this stuff it's like yeah like your stuff is right there
00:50:56| so you get hounds and [ __ ] yeah a lot of them that's a 30 that's a 30 person fill spot right they changed the game so that it was like instantaneous so that you don't have to
00:51:05| wait the game because preparation is part of it but also the game destroys itself when you wait 30 and 40 to 50 minutes for all
00:51:15| this stuff like it's hard to when you sell your company for like a billion dollars like some bad things are gonna happen for me nice i really want to look up how
00:51:22| much supercell selled sold for i was going to say single cell supercell either way that was the concern that was one of those grind games where you
00:51:31| collect resources you click on the thing you can build bigger resource builders you build bigger resource holders does it sound familiar in anyone you big builder
00:51:40| big build bigger armies they cost money um gold and purple stuff and go ahead how much he's helpful supercell is valued at more than 10 billion dollars 10 billion what kind of
00:51:54| micro transactions are people doing it generated alone that's nice that's it the number go up though i feel like it couldn't
00:52:07| have gone off from there huh i don't know i feel like that was the peak like i don't know what 2016 was because that was no it must maybe that i don't know
00:52:19| playing i don't know four years like that seems too too soon i think i quit in 16 people when was that that's when they were making commercials and [ __ ]
00:52:30| right i want to make video games and make so much money but anyway there's another piece of that so mobile games there are mobile games that are just like
00:52:40| you know uh copy and paste of other games they always see that like lemonade stand click like a hundred thousand times to like make your lemonade
00:52:49| and then you make a lemonade builder that makes lemonade faster or a lemonade holder that holds more lemonade it's the same idea oh it's that's awful
00:52:59| i was like immediately i was like if i wanted to play this game it would have to be through a bot like the first thing i would do is be like you got to click a billion times like
00:53:06| just click and button you're the funniest thing where you're saying yeah we'd love to play that game but only through a bot like so i would love to would like to
00:53:11| not play like not which is hilarious which is yeah it defeats the purpose right it does but these are the games of diminishing returns
00:53:20| as we'll come back to a lot it's these games where this new troop that you can unlock or this new weapon you can unlock is five million which could take you
00:53:33| two weeks to get which is a long time in video games and then the next weapon unlock is 17 million and then you're like that's a pretty big difference it's going to take an
00:53:42| exponential like a month yeah yes and your reward is like an amazing thing but the cost is so much and the time invested is so much that eventually you're like
00:53:55| if i quit today [ __ ] it i'm free damn and you're like but i can't quit i invested so many hours and i'm level 80 and nobody else is level everyone's like
00:54:07| level 10 like i'm 80. i gotta stay playing sunk cost fallacy right yes yes exactly which is a gambler's fallacy also but same idea
00:54:16| and you've already put so much time and effort into it you can't walk away from this because then you're wasting your time and any money and effort you put into
00:54:23| all of that yeah did you put any money into classic clients yeah i think a 20 spot at one point in my life i put 20 on something
00:54:33| i think it bought me a lot of gold or whatever you get from that yeah i had multiple accounts so i think i did like the 20 spot like it was the proven thing to do
00:54:42| because there was a time when it gave you a lot of money i think it was like a holiday sale i was like let's do it yeah so i think i did that with like three accounts so like maybe i spent 60
00:54:52| to 100 bucks on a game that was free and also how long did you play it year and years like three years more than two was it three little words yeah your money's worth
00:55:06| technically yeah i think i did yeah i think it's worth made friend entertainment per hour yeah i still can go back down there like hey i kind of want to now it makes me
00:55:15| nostalgic but that's what how much can you share with a friend that you don't haven't talked to in four years exactly and you don't actually know them in
00:55:24| person not at all actually uh what's her name oh what's her name i'm friends with her in snapchat every now and then i see her snap she sees
00:55:34| nine but it's like just a random person who like is that um the welder's wife yeah no the welsh oh oh oh you laurent yeah
00:55:48| anyway that's funny because i i was friends with her and like once in a while she'll see my snap roster she's like you're a different kind of funny and i'm like
00:55:55| holy crap how you doing it was like seven weeks ago and i was like what as she must as she was like 18 or something at the time and then she must be holy [ __ ] how old
00:56:06| it's like she's gonna be like graduated from college now probably uni graduate from uni probably pregnant
00:56:13| married with kids not going on vacay what do they call it going on that's kind of cool too like these people from like australia or like welsh or whatever and they called it different
00:56:22| things and we got used to saying they're slang yeah it's just like a way of communicating the world not uni bachelor party and then nicole
00:56:31| they did have different words for all that it's like it's a type of bird or something sure it's a small walk or something i don't know wall walk
00:56:39| walk walk anyway that's not it most video games now do have that that thing where they're either never ending and you do a sunk cost
00:56:50| and it's exponential curve to unlock the new stuff and eventually you just either have to quit or you've been playing for eight years and you've invested so much that you feel like now
00:56:58| i really can't quit or they go the other way they're very easy do you notice that you're not just talking from a millennial journal click anywhere on
00:57:08| screen it counts you're good yeah you're good oh you played mega man 2 and you stepped the exact inch of a wrong way on a bot that you're
00:57:16| in mid-air and you had to go over get out of here you're done restart level [ __ ] wow wow this is this game is cruel
00:57:31| pretty rude man battletoads double dragon i can't left right left right left right left oh no oh man a thing i'm gonna launch across the screen and splat
00:57:41| no in fact you're out of continues you have to start the game over holy [ __ ] i miss that brutality cause that that was due there is there is a meeting you would
00:57:55| never play it again if that game came out today it did though oh dark souls i haven't i haven't played dark souls but i hear that's the same way and i
00:58:04| i desperately want to play that but i can't put the time to do a thing where we play dark souls that's a good that's a good suggestion because i've never played it either and
00:58:11| i know exactly what you're talking about it's the most brutal game that of our generation i guess we've resolved ourselves yeah we have dark souls well
00:58:23| uh we should wrap it up because people have stopped listening or have started wondering about other games and maybe they want to play games with us
00:58:32| we're doing a new feature where you can play games with us literally we're gonna put our socials at the end of the episode look us up find our address find where we live find
00:58:42| our house knock on the door at night come on in play a video game just me and you bring a gun i don't care keep yourself safe not to threaten us
00:58:51| that's disgusting anyway we want to play games with you folks we want to play all night so wrap it up what are video games to us what is factorio what is it
00:59:01| hope lost in a time waster but a interactive one it's like yeah it's like a movie that you interact uplifting always in a negative way or how many arguments with girlfriends
00:59:15| have you had where it's like oh you're just gonna play video games and i'm like oh you're just gonna watch a tv show that sucks yeah at least anatomy season 17 come on
00:59:25| now how many people are gonna die and get resuscitated you have no effect on that even if they're watching the jersey shore 10 years ago like
00:59:33| i'm like okay like there's entertainment value i'm not even arguing with that but who's being more productive oh you're gonna play games i'm gonna watch jersey shore and it's
00:59:43| like i'm doing more work i'm being interactive i'm using my brain like i'm doing stuff you're just sitting there watching so who's really doing more
00:59:54| yeah i mean clash of clans gave me a job that paid me a lot of money maybe i'll cash out and then play more games a lot of people get gentlemen and you
01:00:04| know they they did it all right too so that's okay nick it's all right you need to play more video games nick what are you doing with yourself nick play some video games come on now
01:00:16| you're too busy you're wasting your life nick play some video games you're right so when it breaks it down video games are ultimately a waste of time but if you really break
01:00:28| down everything folks and you know we're an uplifting podcast that loves to talk about hope in the future and everything everything's a waste of goddamn time
01:00:37| the only thing that everything ultimate waste of time is the ultimate waste of time donate yourself people play a video game play a video game
01:00:48| who cares so with that i say mention some video games we may have forgotten some video game tactics or something you want to put on there mention some video game characters
01:01:00| you think are hot i don't care just put whatever down there don't and i didn't talk to you so check our socials click on the links below
01:01:12| donate to the patreon and we'll give you access to nothing no not well there's probably something we can give you it won't be very uh rewarding but
01:01:24| i'm sure you'll somewhat enjoy it and then be more intrigued to find out like a lot of my exes hey look we found this and it's
01:01:37| not interesting so thank you for tuning in uh we always look forward to interacting with our fans they don't interact a lot and i feel
01:01:47| like it's because they're intimidated by our big brains yeah we will read fan material online and berate it talk about the spelling errors uh i want
01:02:00| to [ __ ] all over you guys please say something or not it depends on what you want yeah anyway you tell us what you want we'll do it for you
01:02:10| if it's within legal reason video games love them hate them i don't know but we love you we love you a lot good night oops it's the wrong one
00:00:18| about yourself they give you goals and you meet them you get new achievements and you feel like you've made you've made it you finally have someone something that
00:00:30| loves you but it's just a game it's just an illusion and you've spent all your time all your money on something that's just
00:00:39| nothing what do you do now so i'm dan and i'm nick folks we're old friends dissecting one topic at a time technology media we've got it all covered enjoyed it each
00:00:58| discussion here deep dive into our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects baby we don't pander to popular opinion you
00:01:09| might get a little bit dirty warning this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and it's for infotainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your
00:01:22| ear holes because we're going to fondle your follicles [Music] [Music]
00:01:42| get ready for this one all right so i'm dan well nick folks this is nuts are we really doing it on panters on gaming addiction factorial addiction
00:01:57| [Music] yeah i thought it was just one game you mean games in general one factorial two factorial three factorial oh my goodness
00:02:07| this could be bad what are we gonna do so i'll preface this uh we're the unpanders and uh i played this game for what says 66 hours in the past
00:02:19| two weeks is impossible but i probably didn't leave it running for some portion of that okay i was going to figure out your running time can you leave it running to
00:02:30| generate some kind of resources or something that'd be sneaky it'll make sense yeah and they by it'll be inherently obvious when i play this
00:02:37| i'll load this up and show you what i've done in the last 66 hours i haven't slept three days i've always wanted to watch you play factorios wow
00:02:47| expect oreos interesting that sounds like a great game yeah i'll preface this by let's bring out having family around constantly kids that don't go to daycare
00:03:04| counseling your face they're on your back they're watching something next to you you yearn for a little piece of like your own little island yeah the thing
00:03:13| you'd zone out into and i didn't have that for like three months so i couldn't find it and then like obviously games have this like completionist
00:03:22| perfectionist like ocd like i did it and it's done like aspect to them most of them do and i was searching for that in this game and i was like oh i like i
00:03:33| finally feel like i like perfected something and it's complete whereas like everything else in my life is just kind of like it just kind of goes and like you get
00:03:41| your show yeah you reach a certain point and it just keeps going and you're just like where's like the achievement where's the like the thing like you did it
00:03:50| like that it doesn't happen it doesn't happen when you get older something's up yeah i guess in real life you don't get that a lot of those do you no congratulations you graduated like 13
00:03:59| years ago and you're just like [ __ ] that might be the last thing you get right you're uh your graduation of some sorts congratulations you had a kid now you have to take care of it
00:04:09| congratulations that's i mean yeah you gotta raise but it's gonna drag down all your other races from now on until they're like no i just thought of that is this all
00:04:19| diminishing returns is that what this is going to end on is that what this is going to be all about is that what everything is i hope so it's not life all right i'm
00:04:26| not maybe i don't know i haven't figured it out yet so for the record i don't know if i said it i'm nick wow that'll be terrible anyway i hope you know that but
00:04:34| i definitely sent it okay good anyway um i've never played this game i've never really seen it uh it's on my wish list in case anyone really wants to buy it
00:04:44| for me if you do you'll have to buy me free time so don't buy it for me free time just on my wishlist i'm more looking for the free time to play it than i am the game itself
00:04:54| so little word to the wise we're gonna check it out here if uh we can do this technologically i'm gonna i'm gonna pretend to do a tutorial here i'm gonna i should have
00:05:03| said i'm just gonna do a quick tutorial but the beginning gets you a good feel so let me switch around here just bring this audio to this just like
00:05:11| that there's a slight background music that makes it kind of curious which i think i didn't listen to any of the music as i did this like i had no uh earpieces at all when i
00:05:21| played the game which makes it kind of interesting that i didn't know what the music of the game was like and yeah that's part of the game yeah
00:05:30| it's never it's great or not no i'm just this is the first time i'm listening to it now i don't think the game actually has audio i think it's just like you
00:05:37| building stuff for the same thing i'm just making this up now okay so let me uh share my screen with nick oh let me close that one out there wrong button let me click there
00:05:49| one second and then i'm going to switch over to this one with game oh that's recursive logic here it's going to confuse you and you can see this right
00:06:00| nick yeah i can see it i can see myself in like reverse slow counter motion making sure we got this yeah we're all good here all right i'm
00:06:07| going to load this game now i played this once before 10 years ago and i have a bunch of saves that were half from 10 years when this game come
00:06:16| out i started like 2013 so maybe seven years ago i was just curious by the way it was made by a guy younger than me
00:06:24| when he was younger than me now and it made like three million and i think he retired once he finished this game not looking good for you here that's all i'm going to say okay
00:06:34| so it gives you a little tool tip when you first start your whole thing you see this boiler yeah so when you first start out you have these minerals there's like
00:06:44| coal copper uh iron is blue it's over there and you get stone which i don't know gives a [ __ ] about stone anyway you move these things around and
00:06:53| eventually you like you make it so you have machines that take care of all the [ __ ] that you need to do machines that take care of your machines
00:07:00| yeah the way you first start is you have to like mine something like that right really tedious it takes a lot of time yeah one
00:07:09| cold one so you should also invest in a better graphics card i'm just saying this game doesn't get any better sorry so what these things do is that they
00:07:22| automatically mine and they feed each other so this is the first like automated thing right because now it's it's mining coal and then it produces coal and the arrow
00:07:32| means that it gives it coal and that one's mining coal so it gives it more coal just reciprocal over and over again warm or cool and then you have to grab it
00:07:41| and when you grab it you start to build more of these things and then you put more of these things in ways that like they feed coal and they take copper or iron or whatever the hell you're doing
00:07:52| so in short this game plays on some sort of like subconscious ocd of like oh it'll take care of itself right
00:08:02| perfectionist type thing you have to have all your angles and the quickest way to do something the most proficient way yeah and all the ratios you're like oh
00:08:10| this produces three of something but this uses four of something i need exactly eight of these things to make it and it's like your whole brain goes
00:08:18| crazy because you're trying to balance things and you can already see like there's conveyor belts like automatically producing stuff and i
00:08:27| don't know why those aren't on that's bothering me so much they should be producing stuff but they're not i don't know why not produce stuff okay nevermind i'm going to skip over past
00:08:36| that so anyway you first start out and then you finally get like these little machines that produce like more material and then they pump stuff into
00:08:46| uh like a conveyor belt which then keeps moving keeps moving keeps moving just ignore all this other stuff just keeps moving and then finally
00:08:56| it comes down to these machines which are fed with coal and uh copper and then they produce plates and just watch it now for a moment okay
00:09:08| it's like a refined version of copper there's a slight background noise of all these things moving and it's just like it's very serene so they all do this they all like have
00:09:18| refined stuff so this is like iron and then iron can become steel so you have like refined refined double refine and then you have like stone somewhere that does the same thing
00:09:28| it makes like a stoner stone and then a stone stone stonier stone of course what did i expect yeah and then they
00:09:35| like go into base materials so like that they all go to the central unit or something yeah so like you build these like assemblers and then it becomes like wire and then
00:09:46| wire like with mixed other materials which are all these little like these little things like grab them a lot of copper mixed wire let me tell you that yeah oh yeah you can sell me
00:09:55| some of this someday oh how many how many of these are how much does that cost well it depends on how many feet are on that reel and what kind of gauge we're
00:10:02| talking about augmented stranding size and then a couple other options i can get into are they shielded or not i can't wait this is enthralling oh my goodness
00:10:13| so these things like they all build up you know you get you're watching this stuff go and the reason it's all building is like upgrade some crappy research which is right here
00:10:22| and this pisses me off because i thought i was going to complete it but these go to infinity i see that little infinity sign means you can upgrade it indefinitely
00:10:31| [ __ ] you stupid game i was like i finally completed something in life and i was nope nope not quite so we're just going to
00:10:39| sit here and watch the machines for a moment all you at the same time so what what do you take from this initially nick you're just like okay that's nice
00:10:48| well two things one i think the video feed is a little stilted or like jump-starty like it's a little yeah which means it's not perfect so i can't
00:11:00| going along i get that i get the idea for it though yeah um and it reminds me of uh i'm trying to think it reminds me of um doctor mario popping those pills no no
00:11:11| not talk to mario who is an unlicensed physician you might never mind everyone don't believe him he doesn't have a degree i've never seen it at least uh what
00:11:19| what's the game uh warcraft meets because like just you know yeah excuse me oh jesus christ starcraft because like you build bigger things to
00:11:32| mine more material and essentially it's a feedback loop so you can get bigger and bigger stores and supplies but also combined with like maybe a
00:11:40| little bit of tetris maybe a little bit of um ah there's a game that's on the tip of my tongue and i don't know what it is but it reminds me of it
00:11:48| this game it has the um kind of the backdrop of an older game like um command and conquer or something yeah um i think it may be some sort of sims roller coaster type thing yep
00:12:01| like instead of people um enjoying the rides and giving you positive feedback and you reinvesting into the people reinvesting into the rides reinvesting no no
00:12:09| you trap them in a corner and then you milk them for all their worth yeah well that's what you're doing with the resources here correct yes yes you're milking the crap out of them
00:12:18| so yeah so you get to a point where you're just like building build all this right now yeah it was incredibly quick the way you built it all because i can't
00:12:28| and i know you've played the game enough and like kind of perfected it so you have a system for this this is your system i assume there's so no
00:12:36| the weirdest thing was that when i first started this game seven years ago i didn't know anything and when i started it last week i still didn't know anything
00:12:47| like i had a sense that like yeah this green circuit thing and the red circuit thing like they were the most precious thing like i knew like i had to make a lot of those
00:12:54| [ __ ] those little pieces of shits they take forever and they like everything so you'll see i'm just gonna there's like four different pieces of space but
00:13:03| i didn't remember how all it fit together other than like i knew there was an assembler and like i knew there were different like upgrades the only thing i remembered in general
00:13:12| was like hey there's people that went way too far with this game and like i started to do that and then it sucked my soul dry because i was like yeah you could make
00:13:21| it so it's like all linear and crap but it's not the fun part of this game is like oh [ __ ] like i need a resource and i don't have it yet yeah and then like i
00:13:28| have to squeeze it in and try to make it all fit and work and this looks all organized and stuff but like you get to like with squirt like look at the squirrely little like
00:13:36| piece of [ __ ] right here like what does that make that makes no sense at all like why did i do that it's just like i need to get it on like that side of the conveyor belt but oh i
00:13:43| don't have a way of doing that but then oh wait this is other materials over here yeah and then it all goes over here so like this is the beginning base where i was like okay i'm gonna make
00:13:51| this and then like these things are like upgrade pieces and then like oh wait you gotta provide power so it's like producing all sorts of crazy steam and [ __ ] and then you're
00:14:00| like oh wait i ran our resources so i need to pump more crap in there more steam more resources more power and then oh solar panels okay yeah i
00:14:08| want more steam more power more power more power it gets crazy you're you're like you go back and you're like oh [ __ ] i have a problem
00:14:15| i know there's [ __ ] trains in this thing they're like bringing resources to you unloading stuff and let's just pop on this thing for two seconds here
00:14:23| so you can like everything's customizable and you're just like boom just drive this way so you get on train and this is the second place i went to
00:14:30| so this is it might be a little longer than i expected it's going a little slow it's gone it's got some materials so you you know there's a good there's something about
00:14:38| driving on the train that you're just like okay this is relaxing for like half a second so i'll jump out here for two seconds and i was like oh i need this resource
00:14:45| which requires water and like oil which is only in this spot so i'll build the train out here yeah that took about like you know six hours or some crap
00:14:53| i don't care anymore who cares about that shitty spot so wait that area took six hours ish roughly uh i would probably say like realistically it's probably more like
00:15:01| three but like figuring out like can i go there without being attacked and like do i need to build any other crap and like oh i need more don't see any
00:15:11| attacking so oh that's what these bug things are oh well how do you know about bugs i didn't tell you i'm seeing that in the office i also noticed that
00:15:20| yeah and i also noticed that one of your upgrades was for uh robot companions or something like that and like relationships companions or somethings
00:15:28| yeah and i was like why would you need that there's one right now look at that oh i just killed it oh there so there's an element to this that i'll finish it off with
00:15:37| um but yeah those are all dead bugs so like i also remember that like i build like you can you can automate things in such a way i move your face here
00:15:46| that like you can do these little like blueprint things and then you can copy and it's like okay i just copied that and then you want to build it here
00:15:53| right okay okay all right so that's like you can skip over things so if i were to build uh let me just do it over over the bugs yeah you can just like get rid of those bugs but like wait wait
00:16:04| wait this is a nuts that's part of it like you don't know this game but like if you put this over here like yeah that's legal
00:16:11| right and then boom these little robots come out and build it for you and so your workers your crew are robots so you use your resources to pay for them
00:16:22| or fuel them or whatever yeah okay and then they can destroy things too so you don't get those in the beginning but i knew to cheat and give myself
00:16:31| those and i was like [ __ ] clicking on all this crap like imagine how long it would have taken to do that even again yeah all of this
00:16:40| yeah so skipping ahead to this this is like the coup de gras like this is the like i'm going to zoom out here
00:16:48| this is nuts like it's a circuit board this is what that is like it's mining [ __ ] it's pumping [ __ ] it's creating more of these freaking green things
00:16:59| because you use a billion of them to make more red things which make bloom work blue things which then the blue things go all the way over there to make more stuff
00:17:07| and oh there's another train but that one's faster because it's nuclear powered and then worse of course it is folks it's nuclear power
00:17:15| and then i don't take pride in this but there's like rockets and there's satellites and that's your end goal get off the planet you're infested by bugs and you
00:17:23| get off the planet you're also producing a lot of like uh pollution where the bugs don't like that yeah i figured that's steam and oh so that
00:17:31| drives the bugs crazy and you produce all the steam and [ __ ] so the bigger you get the more attacked by bugs you'll get so you have to divert your resources
00:17:39| into defending your resources and your things yes yes you know that's all feedback loop yes of course you get stuck in a giant loop where you're like
00:17:49| oh well you know i wish i had more of that white stuff oh but there's only two i wish i could fill up like all this pink like or stuff and i'm just gonna drive all the way over here
00:17:58| and i made this all but the whole base oh there's oil and stuff and then this is like you get you you get the feel of like oh this stuff is like oh it's petering
00:18:09| out like i'm not filling all this stuff up and there's like a ratio and like i wish it was all going really fast and then like going faster and then you just end up sitting
00:18:19| and staring at just like this stuff just watching it like try to fill up weird because this looks like work to me exactly work there were points when i was actually
00:18:31| legitimately like this is like a waste of my time why am i playing work you were you were literally streamlining a process you were literally doing
00:18:40| what most jobs in america are streamlining processes this is more difficult than most jobs logistics yeah i mean it literally is job
00:18:49| like you're doing logistics you're doing streamlining your resources you're doing payroll you're accounting you're trying to figure out what you're spending your
00:18:58| most on how you can cut your resources what you can do to like defund a different area you're doing like that's what the sims is again essentially and victoria
00:19:08| excuse me i'm not saying it's not oh what the [ __ ] happened to here anyway all those damn bugs you control one guy yeah you're just one guy the whole time
00:19:18| you're actually running you didn't see that because it was crowded in like machines you were that crowded you were just splitting around oh my god dude what is
00:19:26| this area nuclear resources so it like creates these little like fuel rods which are really rare they pump into here you create heat it's more efficient in clean steam to
00:19:36| dissipate the heat yeah and then these are generators and just skipping over all this stuff because no one cares about factorio because it's an old
00:19:43| game and it looks like [ __ ] nowadays um yeah so i eventually spent that much time doing all of this this is the base i just figured out you can zoom in on top
00:19:56| so like all of that yeah yeah what was that all the bugs oh is that over there those are all but it's not the red not the red the um the yellow things the caution signs or
00:20:06| the settings that's like the robots like don't have a material to replace it so it tells you yeah like there's there's a blueprint for it and if your
00:20:17| robots see that it's damaged they'll repair it or they'll replace it if they're in range i don't know why they don't i don't get it
00:20:24| wow i just left that blink because it drives me nuts and gets under my skin and i'm just like everything's blinking i don't have that hell yeah it makes [ __ ] off your skin
00:20:36| it makes you have to like try to repair something oh interesting see that little bullet oh there's an attack yeah the best part um and that's another thing with this
00:20:47| game is like you don't get the satisfaction of killing um because your robots kind of do it for you robots kind of do it for you
00:20:54| automatically and it's like the bugs aren't very challenging like they're in don't have like a super ai it's expected like it's sure a game of 10 years ago doesn't feel
00:21:04| like i don't think even like the ai feels like it's tricky at all anyway but if you added that element to it wouldn't it just be more work
00:21:13| more frustrating yeah you might feel more uh rewarded maybe if you completed it yeah yeah you might feel like i conquered it i don't know that
00:21:24| i feel like i conquer a game anymore i don't know like a single player game i don't know this is like everquest so then i guess this boils down to like gaming addiction
00:21:35| and requests i played for like 72 days on a single character wow i can't even that's back in like like the early 2000s when you required a constant
00:21:48| internet connection to play the game oh wow he has like a dial up like that's the time on a phone it's crazy jesus that is nuts it's one character and like my other character i
00:21:57| probably played i have a special thing that like lasers things i can't get through this damn forest the best the one that bug stupid forest destroy it with
00:22:05| all destroy it with fire you can do that what grenades yeah anyway i'm just trying to show you how uh this is like the last two minutes of the
00:22:16| game but yeah i played for like 72 days i probably played like over 100 100 days of like everquest which i understand it because like it's your avatar it's your secure space you
00:22:28| have your own little like world and like you can improve yourself right you're constantly trying to improve yourself sure i i didn't do that with that game
00:22:38| but uh skyrim same idea yeah skyrim is the same thing like oh and try this new sword to see how it feels the most uh the i'm gonna finish with is
00:22:47| like i conquering this game is like the little blast like that just killed a base because it had these like artillery things
00:22:57| and it just killed the bugs there so like my suit will kill them but the most rewarding part i found was that i had a bunch of like artillery on this side like these
00:23:07| bugs can never bother me for some reason like you get demented when you play these games and you're like oh i want to um what is your inventory about trouble
00:23:16| i'm going to invite trouble your inventory is insane you can never find anything either even though it highlights it um i see you can you can use the artillery to
00:23:26| fire on anybody and like so you're trying to find trouble you're trying to find something yeah if you make you feel alive makes me feel more powerful there's poor
00:23:35| little bugs how dare there's children bugs running around they're just playing in the fields in the middle of the alleys and then you can just like
00:23:43| bomb the crap out of them and this is the final like hey i got you guys like screw this game you can just like fire as many as you want until you run out of bullets
00:23:52| and it's just like unloading on the on the bug colonies right there and they're trying to flee this is like them trying to run away yeah it's smaller yeah yeah
00:24:00| breaking apart and i'll just i'll just yeah it's just so it's weird because it's just little blocks and it makes you feel powerful and but it's so like there's nothing
00:24:12| tangible there can you zoom can you zoom in on them or no oh yes i can i guess i can because i have a little radar so that's great i mean there's got to be
00:24:21| a lot of dead bucks over there regardless your gpu can handle it oh [ __ ] dude oh dude whole families of bugs getting just rocked
00:24:35| because i kind of feel bad for the bugs i don't know why okay let's uh let's get out of this game here and more bugs when you think about it you got a lot of
00:24:42| copper you got a lot of pollution they're just trying to live their life and here you are firing on them with full caliber who knows what
00:24:49| okay so did i where how was my time on that one let me see how much time i spent in that game we okay yeah so that's we probably did that
00:25:01| for maybe 20 minutes there's a five-minute intro but that's also what happens it's like you get in that world and you come out and it's hours later
00:25:09| and you go [ __ ] like glad i didn't have anything to do or maybe i did not care i think we touched on it with ocd where it affects
00:25:18| part of your brain where you have to keep doing something or you have to fix something we also touched on an escapism where you you have to
00:25:26| get away from something or you have to put yourself in a new life in a new world immerse yourself in everything have we talked since you played um the game with the uh the fish heads and
00:25:38| everything we talked about that didn't we we talked we yeah you mentioned a while ago i think with escapism i mentioned i didn't know yes i didn't know if you
00:25:46| had talked about it since what remains of you thank you yes i couldn't remember the actual name of your struggle in there that was one of my favorite i want to
00:25:55| tell people that but you can't convey it i know you have to you have to actually physically play that game because there's a playing the game while chopping fish out
00:26:04| yeah and a storytelling element and an artistic element like the art i like how the art starts really crappy yeah and like 2d and like you can barely
00:26:13| see anything and then by the end it's like super 3d and gorgeous graphics beautiful and you can barely see the fish heads there you're still
00:26:21| topping yeah you're moving your right hand to chop fish hands the whole time for fish heads yeah yes and you're still chopping those fish heads and there's a
00:26:29| song playing and i actually enjoy the song and i feel like i was a king yes uh up till the end right yeah you're still uh on share screen you'll probably switch it down for you yeah
00:26:41| sorry i forgot it's good i don't care i just don't want you to you know everyone to figure out your secrets like big big what's that big big
00:26:50| wienerporn.com [Laughter] and then um but yeah you're right like the what reigns of edith finch like that's
00:27:10| that storyline i think that story out of all of them was by far the best because a it pulls you in because you're doing something monotonous that you
00:27:19| ignore while you're doing like into the story you are him 100 yes and it's funny because that's that's the best a video game can be
00:27:30| a video game can add its greatest ability to make you become a character forget that you're the kind in doing a monotonous thing yes it's both yes so like most video games
00:27:41| are kind of monotonous what you're getting at is like and you can have fun with a monotonous game we would not say otherwise because
00:27:47| good lord knows you love some monotonous games but that is like peak video game where you combine a little bit of like freedom and a little bit of
00:27:56| there's no freedom i mean actually technically you can't not win do you know what i mean yeah it's a walking simulator so it's the ultimate like
00:28:05| just press forward or left and you're going to win like you can't forward the story by losing light you just like you two keys just like push those two keys and then
00:28:15| you're done if you really if you want to boil it down yeah but it was but it's the most fun pressing two keys like technically like three or four for that
00:28:24| one yeah oh boy oh yeah you might have to go back there's no walking simulator three yes but honestly that's crazy that that's the best part of video
00:28:36| games and it's three buttons and you can't lose and there's no timing there's no timing to it right you just know chop the fish for you the game waits for
00:28:48| you like a good friend like a good friend so you mentioned at the beginning it's like what is a good game what's a bad game
00:28:56| what's what's monotonous and what's not i mean so i'll go back to like everquest mmorpg and i the reason why i thank him so much is a i didn't have a driver's license so
00:29:10| i couldn't go anywhere it was probably like i probably started in the middle of summer but i'll say middle of winter it's very dark and cold and it kept you
00:29:19| warm because the computer was putting out a lot of heat that's the craziest thing i ever heard for real nice toasty room and wait did it really yeah i did
00:29:30| and i had a nice hot room every every night i wonder if that messes with your psychology a little bit of course yeah that's weird yeah well
00:29:40| also like like seeing i don't know actually going to visit friends like required effort and school night like if you had free time
00:29:48| to kill like what were you gonna do you're gonna what play a board game or spend time with your family or watch a movie or play a game it's like which one of those
00:29:55| i probably pick play game more on rack yeah um my son is addicted to video games essentially i mean he's not addicted to it but i mean he likes it better than everything else
00:30:05| and can i argue with him like it's like you have to trump his addiction with better addictions but like think of the addictions i can offer him he's like i want to play um mario kart 8
00:30:16| or uh whatever and i'm like oh that's a sweet game and he's like or overwatch and i'm like yeah that's a cool game anyways and i'm like but your mother may think you should play
00:30:25| number one yeah even even worse like you played in front of him and he's like okay what does it do your imagination is the key
00:30:36| you move a piece on the board and roll this dice and he's like this is [ __ ] corny he's like i can't play the game and i'm like no we're having
00:30:52| fun tonight so like you can't go backwards in evolution or technology like he wouldn't even have fun playing nes games like he's playing
00:31:03| like i just mentioned like overwatch and like minecraft and stuff where you can build and create and do all sorts of crazy stuff and have crazy stories and amazing graphics
00:31:12| and it's like how do we tell a kid how do i tell a kid that like no don't play games which are fun and awesome and have cool graphics and like
00:31:30| flashy stuff but do something less fun and i'm admitting it right now like the things i wanted to do are less fun but i'm like do less fun things because
00:31:40| experience you're going to override your serotonin think of that you're never going to feel happy again that's why i kind of feel like when my kids are addicted to youtube it's like
00:31:49| you you accept that as like reality and it's like the laugh tracks on that creep me out it's like intentionally designed to be
00:31:57| colorful and bright and action filled and like it's it doesn't hurt you at all it never hurts you you're you're in a safe space it's like this is not
00:32:04| this is not reality and like sometimes the things that hurt you make you better they build i don't disagree with you at all but i also say isn't that what half the games we played
00:32:14| are designed for or half the shows we grew up on so i mean how is it different is it better at doing that so it's like scary because it's like
00:32:23| more this is like perfect well after a killing machine for serotonin we're creating these games and youtube videos that are so good at entertaining that there's an endless stream of them
00:32:36| and we figured out the key to making a perfect game or a perfect youtube video that will entertain anyone from age 3 to 33. and guess what we're giving them to your
00:32:45| kids now and i'm like it scares me because i didn't have that until i don't know two five years ago 10 years ago
00:32:56| stream of entertainment like when was the first time we actually considered it like when did netflix actually like stop sending you stuff in the mail somewhere somewhere i forgot netflix did
00:33:07| that dude wild that's crazy yeah well somewhere between netflix and youtube and probably you know probably youtube i mean because that's what kids start on
00:33:18| right is when we had this stream of perfect when we want it how we want it give it to me and it ties into why we love video games
00:33:29| which is you push a button it does what you want it gives you just enough surprise i guess to keep you moving forward but also
00:33:39| just enough what you think it's going to give you higher levels better score more money to buy new outfits more power and it's weird i don't know if that's
00:33:52| what you want so much as it's what you think you want i don't know i feel like the reason why i played so much everquest was that
00:34:01| there was an infrastructure there and there was a they called it a guild where you had like maybe like there's probably like 50 people in the guild and there might have been like
00:34:10| actual like online friends which i think now is like more commonplace that's passe now back then that's that's a rarity yeah that's a pedophile is what my mom
00:34:23| would say so [Laughter] but you could have been yeah it could have been but you know i there's there's a network
00:34:32| there that's like larger than your own and i think back then it's hard to justify that as like a real social network and you know i think
00:34:41| now people see people as like if they're an online presence like they could be a legitimate person before i don't think you could envision a like an online person as a legitimate
00:34:50| person they were just like especially out of my parents minds like they're just some fictitious character like they were a bot
00:34:57| here's what's going to cook your noodle we could probably do a whole episode on it but like i have a screen name from aol or like from whatever
00:35:05| also my twitch username summarize it what was it wait what was the beginning of it your aol my first one was nick berg after goldberg 13. yeah it was
00:35:17| my very first one no one even knew it uh so then i changed it to soul reverse six without the second a uh if you recall yeah yeah yeah now you do
00:35:27| um but anyway like now it's even crazier because that's your twitch name and that's your like uh it's locked which name yeah yeah it's great it's like your fake fake
00:35:38| identity but it's also more real now because if you just had one name that was like soul reaver six and you're on bodyweightliftforums.com or whatever
00:35:47| like you know posting like this is [ __ ] up but if you look him up you'll find his twitter you'll find like his facebook uh you probably won't find his
00:35:56| facebook you'll find like all these other his instagram maybe is one letter off like do you know what i mean exactly you have all these presences and
00:36:07| all these media accounts and reddit and whatever and you can literally find these people and it's the same person in five or six or seven or eight
00:36:15| different realms and it kind of makes them a more filled out person like closer to a real person than what your parents think is a pedophile
00:36:22| because just one guy with a weird name posting on a workout website or whatever on how to get some gains so we're becoming more and more
00:36:32| real online we're becoming more and more an entity in the digital world and that's why it's weird that we're getting more consumption from there like starting with my [ __ ] kid he
00:36:45| he's five he has he has a gmail he has a switch account he has a he does not have a youtube i think he has one more account i forget what it is
00:36:55| oh he's gonna have these things and he's gonna inherit them but exactly he didn't pick them he's five he could barely spell but i had to
00:37:03| make it for him so he can play and find his goddamn friends who's like a 12 year old he knows and an eight-year-old he knows who are never going to play with him but i'm not going
00:37:11| to you know what i mean we can have your friends unlike you yeah yeah well they don't want to play with a five-year-old who doesn't have a
00:37:18| microphone even if he did what do we say like it's weird yeah exactly but in a year or two is my kid gonna be playing with other five and six year olds or
00:37:27| six and seven at that point yeah probably he's playing overwatch he's already talking about like making killer head shots
00:37:34| and his favorite things to me and it's not it's a little disturbing from the whole violence and video games things but he's he's not a violent kid like i don't
00:37:42| think he's whatever what's funny to me is that his favorite memories now and he's only five are funny things that happen in video games
00:37:52| that happened that i was there for or someone else was there for or he remembers and it happened to me when i was 14 or that overnight raid and we [ __ ] and
00:38:03| the game glitched out and we did this and like i'm laughing but he's only five or six or he's gonna be six and he's gonna be like dada i hit a
00:38:12| match where i went use my shield to stab people or smash people and i'm gonna be like that's so messed up and then i'll remember exactly what mine you did
00:38:25| it just had stabs only and i'm like you're just doing it younger and it's weird i don't know if it's cool or not i don't know if it's the same it's just they're
00:38:34| younger do you think they level up faster they'll be just like kind of jaded by the time they hit their teens there's like uh
00:38:41| come on i kind of think that because i mean human nature is always going to be human nature it's always going to win but even as the technology gets better like
00:38:50| they're going to be like oh i used to play mmos back when i was a kid and that's him at 12 whereas when i was like do you know what i mean like the next generation yeah yeah the
00:39:02| next generation is just going to talk about video games like a commodity like like do you already notice when you read a review on ign or something it's like
00:39:10| it's an mmo that's basically this game meets this game and this is a glitch and this is the caveat this is the feedback loop and it
00:39:19| tells you right there whereas when i was 12 and i played a video game i didn't think about the feedback loop i didn't think about whether it was an mmo or not or do you
00:39:28| know what i mean i feel like they're rarer and they're newer like they're fresher like you had like an original it was like the first
00:39:35| original it was like awesome it was so cool now it's like this is made by you know they made this game this game this game and you know they made this
00:39:44| game yeah coming up it's just free ps4 ps5 it's using it's using this engine right here remember this engine it made like seven
00:39:51| games and like i get it like financially that makes sense but but it's not like video games are as mysterious or rare or
00:40:03| almost like a thing right they're a thing we consume and we enjoy but they're a feedback loop they're kind of like we know we're getting from them we
00:40:14| expect what we're getting from them we already know the spoilers we know the cheats we know what's going to happen at the end but we consume them anyway because like
00:40:21| i want that have you played any vr games no i actually haven't gotten it now any vr have you yeah my buddy got one and he he set it up uh his oculus rift he set it up and like
00:40:35| he had a free room so he had a room entirely dedicated to vr which i think is going to be the future i think people will have a room dedicated to like video games it could
00:40:42| be okay and uh there were two games that i remember there's one like a zombie game where you're in a field and you're spinning
00:40:50| into like 360 degrees and you're shooting as they come at you so you're constantly spinning and shooting spinning and shooting and
00:40:57| trying to like take down the big guy who's coming at you you got to shoot him in certain spot and the craziest part is that you're so like your brain is so engaged
00:41:08| by the time you're done shooting you have no clue like where are you direction yeah of course not dude of course and it i mean that's the
00:41:17| simplest version of what's going on but like you could be in like the corner of the room like you could like i've seen people like punch the wall by accident
00:41:25| it like warns you but it is like it is so it's it's not even a great game but your brain just makes it rain by a lot
00:41:36| yes it's super engaging your brain because i think that's what video games are getting good at they're they're getting good at being entertaining whether or not that's good
00:41:45| or not is a whole different thing yeah hey whether it entertains the ocd sections the action sections the horror sections uh
00:41:54| you just tap in i mean it's the same video games are the new media to consume yeah i mean because they're like tvs and movies like do what genre do you want to watch uh like
00:42:04| tv and movies are so good so are friggin video games right imagine if you could like vr of a movie and like just like try to oh be a part of it or change the outcome
00:42:14| yeah or look around the corner and be like no no yeah you're in romantic comedy and you're like anyway so i'm gonna decide to have sex
00:42:22| with your sister let's see what happens or like you're in an action movie and like the guy has a gun and he says what do you think i'm going
00:42:31| to do punk and you shoot yourself in the head what happened i have no idea like that literally makes me go what the hell would happen that would be
00:42:41| amazing i think can't wait i think that's the beauty of video games versus any other media you consume is that you control yeah you control this outcome
00:42:50| you put an input and you get something back do you ever play the stanley parable the stanley parable yeah no half-life engine it's like
00:43:01| you're an office worker and he wakes up from his office one day and everyone's gone and you leave the office and there's a narrator the whole time and you
00:43:09| choose what to do there's all these doors you can go through and says stanley chose the door on the left and you can choose the door on the right and there and he goes
00:43:17| i said the door on the left and a new door will appear and you can choose whether to go through that or go back and essentially what happens is there's like 50 to 70 different endings to this
00:43:29| game and they all end with stanley dying or being trapped or something happens to him terribly because he either ignores the narrator or he doesn't but it's kind
00:43:39| of cool you should you just google that one you might like the stanley cup the stanley parable and write that down well we should capture it on video and then like put in a podcast or something
00:43:48| so that i can let's do it later very funny i just i haven't beaten all the ways to do it and it takes long to get to
00:43:55| like say 20 minutes in and then choose an ending so it's like i don't know where the cutoffs are but i would like to explore all the endings is there a way to win
00:44:08| yeah there actually is one single way yeah there is but that's not the funnest way don't you read it in nintendo power and figure it out no i think i figured this one out by
00:44:19| myself you turn off the machine and go out into the open world and like that's your reward but it's not as rewarding as say making the narrator
00:44:28| make a video game because he's aware you're in a video game and make a new one where a baby is on fire or something in the background he's like is this what you wanted
00:44:37| stanley stanley would you like a game like this instead and it's like a baby crawling through fire and like all this weird [ __ ] and you're
00:44:46| like whoa so you can't even shoot or anything you can only press a button or walk so it's pretty hilarious wow but anyway like that's that's the beauty
00:44:57| of video games they're [Music] somewhere imagination just crapping images all over you but it's what you put into it
00:45:06| and what it gives you back which you don't get from let's say movies and stuff you can't input into a movie or a tv show and get a different answer
00:45:14| or a different response tickles the itch it kind of does don't get me wrong you mentioned earlier they're kind of monotonous like you can do
00:45:22| whatever and expect you know what to expect it's a program there's nothing like yeah like factorio is a pyramid on top of a pyramid atomic pyramid and you're just
00:45:33| building more pyramids until you get to the peak which is not a peak it's just dull edge pyramid you're right around here it's duller and duller until you're like
00:45:43| what am i doing which really leads me into like i was playing this game and i just like i did it because i was stuck at my desk with my kids sitting like
00:45:54| standing there watching youtube and i was like i want to do something but i want to escape like i watch movies enough i listen to music
00:46:01| enough it's the thing that's just like i can be interactive with it and express some sort of creative nerve that i have
00:46:10| so why not just do it but then doing it doesn't really lead to any satisfaction so it's not really like i'm like getting myself here this way i think it does while you're playing
00:46:22| but i think the more you play it the less the more reflective you become and you're like uh well and the higher the reward is like
00:46:32| you know that it's like 90 percent of games right now on phones are oh like what suck about that yes like a clash of clans version or
00:46:42| like the shittiest version possible either way and clash of clans was only fun because of the social aspect we had an actual clan when you was hilarious you felt the pressure of
00:46:52| people watching you that was the best that's the pinnacle it's like you had to beat this one guy and you had to use all your resources to do it in a sequence and yeah yeah there's a
00:47:02| there's time involved that like you had to do it like you could have just dropped that thing right there and you remember you could spam hogs
00:47:10| yeah that felt so good that did feel really good they eventually fixed it a little bit but that spamming hogs was one of the greatest feelings in the world just
00:47:19| up right and then we just jump over all the walls and just start hammering and then the one you yeah bombs is what got them right yeah yeah they up the bombs yeah
00:47:29| yup against that but it was so rewarding to like manage the clan and like tell people like okay hit this guy and then like have what one thing left to like one hit left
00:47:41| you have this you have one hit left you have to hit number 18 and then would they default would they not do it would they listen to you would they do
00:47:50| it and fail like a number four hitting an 18 like a jlo or something like that you know yeah it was i missed
00:48:00| that there's like there's it was a glory days yeah because i don't think you get that [Laughter] there were people on our clan that were
00:48:12| there for months that were totally like splinter cells or just kids or um what was it the rich big breast is eight australian woman
00:48:21| oh oh yes yes yes and then there's like these guys from um turkey there's like a group of like three of them from turkey if you remember them they were really good but
00:48:30| they were just like arrogant and they yeah they disappear so what's what's interesting with that game is that that game caused me to bot
00:48:41| that was the first game no [ __ ] i think that was my very first like actual true bot that was like real time so if that game didn't exist i would
00:48:52| never get back to programming i wouldn't have the job i have now so props to that game i also like develop like i don't know a dozen other bots to take
00:49:00| care of all these other things just like factorio automate the [ __ ] out of it i wouldn't have that without the game inspiring me to do something that was just like
00:49:09| let's do this thing because it you know it makes it makes sense in my brain to help other people so let's like make this thing happen
00:49:22| you want hogs what are you trying to get what um what did you have to type that was remind me because it was i'll remember as soon as you tell me it was all the
00:49:33| characters like that you could order a one and a zero i understood that but it was an order of did you have to type something before that
00:49:41| was the chain to command it was there something to start it so there's for the people who have no [ __ ] clue what you're talking about is that there are certain key commands that you could
00:49:50| type in and it would like be like what do you want and it would like tell you like it would it would detail this stuff in chat be like it'd be like a little manual
00:49:57| that opens up and people are used to bots now but it didn't exist for clash of clans until i made it and then it was like yeah i forget i think it was
00:50:06| like i forget what i made it i don't remember but it doesn't matter it's like i was trying to get nostalgic there's no way that i'll remember
00:50:15| that that detail because i i forget those things those things go in the trash in my brain i don't they're my favorite parts and then i remember like hogs like the 0-000
00:50:27| what i feel the best about is when i see someone request what was asked and it completely fills it in half a second faster than a human being could yeah 100
00:50:38| because you is did you also build your farm so that it would have uh equal amount of everything kind of yeah i had enough to fill up like one or two people entirely so if like
00:50:48| two people needed to hit immediately like you one minute to go like do i have the resources can i get this stuff it's like yeah like your stuff is right there
00:50:56| so you get hounds and [ __ ] yeah a lot of them that's a 30 that's a 30 person fill spot right they changed the game so that it was like instantaneous so that you don't have to
00:51:05| wait the game because preparation is part of it but also the game destroys itself when you wait 30 and 40 to 50 minutes for all
00:51:15| this stuff like it's hard to when you sell your company for like a billion dollars like some bad things are gonna happen for me nice i really want to look up how
00:51:22| much supercell selled sold for i was going to say single cell supercell either way that was the concern that was one of those grind games where you
00:51:31| collect resources you click on the thing you can build bigger resource builders you build bigger resource holders does it sound familiar in anyone you big builder
00:51:40| big build bigger armies they cost money um gold and purple stuff and go ahead how much he's helpful supercell is valued at more than 10 billion dollars 10 billion what kind of
00:51:54| micro transactions are people doing it generated alone that's nice that's it the number go up though i feel like it couldn't
00:52:07| have gone off from there huh i don't know i feel like that was the peak like i don't know what 2016 was because that was no it must maybe that i don't know
00:52:19| playing i don't know four years like that seems too too soon i think i quit in 16 people when was that that's when they were making commercials and [ __ ]
00:52:30| right i want to make video games and make so much money but anyway there's another piece of that so mobile games there are mobile games that are just like
00:52:40| you know uh copy and paste of other games they always see that like lemonade stand click like a hundred thousand times to like make your lemonade
00:52:49| and then you make a lemonade builder that makes lemonade faster or a lemonade holder that holds more lemonade it's the same idea oh it's that's awful
00:52:59| i was like immediately i was like if i wanted to play this game it would have to be through a bot like the first thing i would do is be like you got to click a billion times like
00:53:06| just click and button you're the funniest thing where you're saying yeah we'd love to play that game but only through a bot like so i would love to would like to
00:53:11| not play like not which is hilarious which is yeah it defeats the purpose right it does but these are the games of diminishing returns
00:53:20| as we'll come back to a lot it's these games where this new troop that you can unlock or this new weapon you can unlock is five million which could take you
00:53:33| two weeks to get which is a long time in video games and then the next weapon unlock is 17 million and then you're like that's a pretty big difference it's going to take an
00:53:42| exponential like a month yeah yes and your reward is like an amazing thing but the cost is so much and the time invested is so much that eventually you're like
00:53:55| if i quit today [ __ ] it i'm free damn and you're like but i can't quit i invested so many hours and i'm level 80 and nobody else is level everyone's like
00:54:07| level 10 like i'm 80. i gotta stay playing sunk cost fallacy right yes yes exactly which is a gambler's fallacy also but same idea
00:54:16| and you've already put so much time and effort into it you can't walk away from this because then you're wasting your time and any money and effort you put into
00:54:23| all of that yeah did you put any money into classic clients yeah i think a 20 spot at one point in my life i put 20 on something
00:54:33| i think it bought me a lot of gold or whatever you get from that yeah i had multiple accounts so i think i did like the 20 spot like it was the proven thing to do
00:54:42| because there was a time when it gave you a lot of money i think it was like a holiday sale i was like let's do it yeah so i think i did that with like three accounts so like maybe i spent 60
00:54:52| to 100 bucks on a game that was free and also how long did you play it year and years like three years more than two was it three little words yeah your money's worth
00:55:06| technically yeah i think i did yeah i think it's worth made friend entertainment per hour yeah i still can go back down there like hey i kind of want to now it makes me
00:55:15| nostalgic but that's what how much can you share with a friend that you don't haven't talked to in four years exactly and you don't actually know them in
00:55:24| person not at all actually uh what's her name oh what's her name i'm friends with her in snapchat every now and then i see her snap she sees
00:55:34| nine but it's like just a random person who like is that um the welder's wife yeah no the welsh oh oh oh you laurent yeah
00:55:48| anyway that's funny because i i was friends with her and like once in a while she'll see my snap roster she's like you're a different kind of funny and i'm like
00:55:55| holy crap how you doing it was like seven weeks ago and i was like what as she must as she was like 18 or something at the time and then she must be holy [ __ ] how old
00:56:06| it's like she's gonna be like graduated from college now probably uni graduate from uni probably pregnant
00:56:13| married with kids not going on vacay what do they call it going on that's kind of cool too like these people from like australia or like welsh or whatever and they called it different
00:56:22| things and we got used to saying they're slang yeah it's just like a way of communicating the world not uni bachelor party and then nicole
00:56:31| they did have different words for all that it's like it's a type of bird or something sure it's a small walk or something i don't know wall walk
00:56:39| walk walk anyway that's not it most video games now do have that that thing where they're either never ending and you do a sunk cost
00:56:50| and it's exponential curve to unlock the new stuff and eventually you just either have to quit or you've been playing for eight years and you've invested so much that you feel like now
00:56:58| i really can't quit or they go the other way they're very easy do you notice that you're not just talking from a millennial journal click anywhere on
00:57:08| screen it counts you're good yeah you're good oh you played mega man 2 and you stepped the exact inch of a wrong way on a bot that you're
00:57:16| in mid-air and you had to go over get out of here you're done restart level [ __ ] wow wow this is this game is cruel
00:57:31| pretty rude man battletoads double dragon i can't left right left right left right left oh no oh man a thing i'm gonna launch across the screen and splat
00:57:41| no in fact you're out of continues you have to start the game over holy [ __ ] i miss that brutality cause that that was due there is there is a meeting you would
00:57:55| never play it again if that game came out today it did though oh dark souls i haven't i haven't played dark souls but i hear that's the same way and i
00:58:04| i desperately want to play that but i can't put the time to do a thing where we play dark souls that's a good that's a good suggestion because i've never played it either and
00:58:11| i know exactly what you're talking about it's the most brutal game that of our generation i guess we've resolved ourselves yeah we have dark souls well
00:58:23| uh we should wrap it up because people have stopped listening or have started wondering about other games and maybe they want to play games with us
00:58:32| we're doing a new feature where you can play games with us literally we're gonna put our socials at the end of the episode look us up find our address find where we live find
00:58:42| our house knock on the door at night come on in play a video game just me and you bring a gun i don't care keep yourself safe not to threaten us
00:58:51| that's disgusting anyway we want to play games with you folks we want to play all night so wrap it up what are video games to us what is factorio what is it
00:59:01| hope lost in a time waster but a interactive one it's like yeah it's like a movie that you interact uplifting always in a negative way or how many arguments with girlfriends
00:59:15| have you had where it's like oh you're just gonna play video games and i'm like oh you're just gonna watch a tv show that sucks yeah at least anatomy season 17 come on
00:59:25| now how many people are gonna die and get resuscitated you have no effect on that even if they're watching the jersey shore 10 years ago like
00:59:33| i'm like okay like there's entertainment value i'm not even arguing with that but who's being more productive oh you're gonna play games i'm gonna watch jersey shore and it's
00:59:43| like i'm doing more work i'm being interactive i'm using my brain like i'm doing stuff you're just sitting there watching so who's really doing more
00:59:54| yeah i mean clash of clans gave me a job that paid me a lot of money maybe i'll cash out and then play more games a lot of people get gentlemen and you
01:00:04| know they they did it all right too so that's okay nick it's all right you need to play more video games nick what are you doing with yourself nick play some video games come on now
01:00:16| you're too busy you're wasting your life nick play some video games you're right so when it breaks it down video games are ultimately a waste of time but if you really break
01:00:28| down everything folks and you know we're an uplifting podcast that loves to talk about hope in the future and everything everything's a waste of goddamn time
01:00:37| the only thing that everything ultimate waste of time is the ultimate waste of time donate yourself people play a video game play a video game
01:00:48| who cares so with that i say mention some video games we may have forgotten some video game tactics or something you want to put on there mention some video game characters
01:01:00| you think are hot i don't care just put whatever down there don't and i didn't talk to you so check our socials click on the links below
01:01:12| donate to the patreon and we'll give you access to nothing no not well there's probably something we can give you it won't be very uh rewarding but
01:01:24| i'm sure you'll somewhat enjoy it and then be more intrigued to find out like a lot of my exes hey look we found this and it's
01:01:37| not interesting so thank you for tuning in uh we always look forward to interacting with our fans they don't interact a lot and i feel
01:01:47| like it's because they're intimidated by our big brains yeah we will read fan material online and berate it talk about the spelling errors uh i want
01:02:00| to [ __ ] all over you guys please say something or not it depends on what you want yeah anyway you tell us what you want we'll do it for you
01:02:10| if it's within legal reason video games love them hate them i don't know but we love you we love you a lot good night oops it's the wrong one
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