Transcript of Episode 148 - Complexity Comprehension
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00:00:11| everybody knows the alphabet everybody can count as high as they want can they comprehend that all at the same time how complex do things get when you can add subtract
00:00:23| mix letters together make words sentences it's infinite how can you even comprehend everything that has been tied into
00:00:35| numbers and letters and even more than that in the visual in games and the complexity of human life let's talk about that
00:00:54| so i'm dan and i'm nick folks we're old friends dissecting one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep dive into
00:01:06| our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping block baby we don't pander to popular opinion we might even get a little bit dirty
00:01:18| this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and it's for infotainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your ear holes
00:01:29| because we're going to fondle your [Music] follicles [Music] so i'm dan you know i'm nick folks
00:01:51| we're the unpanderers and today we're talking about some pretty complex things so uh if you're under 18 if you're under if you're under 70. maybe uh maybe they don't have to tune in check
00:02:06| the cliff notes you're going to be feeling it real complex you think let's take a moment to thank our sponsors yeah i think we don't have any
00:02:17| we might but even if we did would we pander no we wouldn't thank them anyway [Laughter] oh [ __ ] that was awesome to amazon
00:02:29| for delivering my packages today when i paid for you to do that so we're going to talk about complexity comprehension and then satisfaction weird that they're
00:02:41| all related you would think they aren't but maybe they are i don't know i'm going to tie this together but i'm sure we can [ __ ] our way to it
00:02:48| i doubt it my money's on the other guy tonight i'm gonna begin with like like life becomes more complex as you get older you get
00:03:00| you get less pure things like you get little like droplets of like emotion here and there that's like sprinkled in there a little you know they call them sprinkles or
00:03:10| jimmies in some locations um you know yeah uh jimmy's also jimmy cavs but never mind um so you get sprinkles of happiness and
00:03:21| like little like got you moments epiphanies like those things bring you happiness bring you satisfaction but it gets kind of stranger because
00:03:30| like after a period of time you kind of experienced all you can experience and then you kind of live vicariously and kind of like the second time around it's just like
00:03:38| haha and then you're kind of like okay and then eventually you kind of if you do the same thing over and over again you say like is that all there is
00:03:48| so people are constantly pulling in more and more complex things to make it more and more challenging to make it more satisf satisfying is this diminishing returns can we just
00:03:59| skip ahead to the end and we're done no [Laughter] it is what you were just discussing kind of is you're doing the same thing over
00:04:10| and over you have to up the ante so like i call it diminishing returns uh the drug user fallacy um to get the same high you have to use more drugs to get the same high you have to
00:04:21| use more drugs and then as you get more and more different conditions to a response it may be so or even an alcoholic you have to drink more and more get to the
00:04:29| same high like you have to keep reset you have to oh well of course but who's doing that we're all chasing that that good fun stuff silly human so but that's like diminishing returns
00:04:45| like you're getting the same gold in a little handheld uh phone game and you have to just get more of that gold you can get 10 times as much gold to just get to
00:04:54| the next level but you're doing it because it's like you're damp oh i love gold i love next level i love leveling up that's a number right it's a number
00:05:02| scheme it is but it can you tie those things to real life things like is it a number of drugs we can do to get to the next level is it a number of money we'll get
00:05:13| that will get us a promotion that'll get us to the next level is there are there numbers behind all of it is there a dollar amount that makes people happy
00:05:21| i don't know what about your pole didn't you pull up a pole from right before coronavirus of people's happiness i thought that was very funny i was trying to figure out happiness in
00:05:30| general and most of the results are america so it's not across the world but you know it's a good light section so americans tend to be purely pretty happy
00:05:42| at least the way they answer polls another thing you have to take into consideration is who's taking the polls who's asking the poll are the answers anonymous and like
00:05:51| what are the responses like is it i can be happy or i can be sad well more happy than sad do you have 10 results can i be super happy sort of happy medium happy
00:06:01| neutral who's going to pick neutral he's never completely neutral but like there's a lot of things that go into these that we don't know but what was hilarious is
00:06:10| i pulled it up and a new high of 90 of americans are entirely satisfied with their personal life february 6 2020
00:06:24| all those people wonder what they're doing now dustin mccarthy in uh well-being uh in gallup i'm not sure what that is but anyway it's actually a really good art talked
00:06:34| about how people rank their happiness it's based on like their income their identity their free time stuff like that and it's just
00:06:42| really really funny that this was released february 6 2020 because if you just waited three weeks yep would have been completely different you would have been able to interview
00:06:52| them you wouldn't be able to pull them not in person that's for sure you can't pull people in person anymore that's that's what's happened
00:07:00| in our pc society so in that poll the bottom what below forty forty thousand dollars in was it in your bank or is that income i believe it's income because the um the
00:07:12| top one is a hundred thousand plus income and most people should be super happy right it's it's um they based it on so these are all the things that are
00:07:22| effective in your life i'm white i have a hundred thousand dollars i'm republican um i have children under age 18. you check off all these boxes for what
00:07:30| you are and then they grade you overall are you satisfied with your life or are you not satisfied with your life the number one result for satisfied with your life
00:07:41| plus and i think that was for their income yeah so i fit in that that bracket and i don't like once you make enough money you try
00:07:50| to use your money to make more money and at that point it becomes a very tricky game because there's so many people in that in that bubble and you feel like you're
00:07:57| missing opportunities like when the pandemic happened and the stock market like bottomed out aka the poll linked over over time it showed that people were happy when the
00:08:07| stock market was high so i guess in the beginning of the pandemic i missed out on opportunity so i always like regret like not putting my money in the right
00:08:15| spots so that like that pains me because i like i'm a perfect perfectionist i like not to get things wrong and i got something wrong there
00:08:24| so but it's too it's too complex to really understand it and there's way too much going on to feel like i should have known isn't there a point where though that
00:08:36| they're satisfied and it doesn't necessarily mean they're satisfied with their income or the money they have it's just they're satisfied and also
00:08:44| by coincidence i make over a hundred thousand dollars a year i think that's that's the basis chasing the money the chasing the money seems to be the
00:08:58| happiness yeah in your scenario versus maybe it's not a basis for happiness is chasing it and getting as much as you can it's just once you reach
00:09:07| over that amount you should be able to cover your bases and maybe focus on other things i'm not giving you advice i'm just saying yeah
00:09:15| so there's a piece there of like setting goals and setting new ones and then like achieving goals in the same scheme so i think whenever i play like games or even in life it's when i
00:09:26| when i'm first learning something i get super frustrated and i hate it and it's like it's really complex the beginning and you start to comprehend it and becomes less and less complex
00:09:34| and then somewhere in the middle you kind of feel like you're achieving you're striving you're doing better and then i guess towards the end you kind of top
00:09:43| out and when you top out you don't really have anything to strive for so you just kind of like ah it doesn't like feel quite right
00:09:52| do you think this is like with a video game well it's like playing a game like dishonored or you never played that one but um there's certain video games have a
00:09:59| steeper learning curve than others and there's they're wide open you can do so many different things it's overwhelming you you just can't figure out to do anything
00:10:07| but once you find your niche or like a way to like cheat the system like you can kind of oh i'm really good at this and oh damn i can get so much gold from
00:10:16| this or i can get so much credit from this or so much clout from this in real life or so much praise from this and really you bang it over and over again to the
00:10:25| point of like you're sort of spamming it you're cheating a little bit and then you're getting back big time results and you're leveling up you're promoting
00:10:34| yourself you're getting more money you're doing whatever it is you're good at and you're you're you're using the system
00:10:41| at that point there comes a point where diminishing returns i'll say i know that sounds crazy but you keep doing it but you're not getting you're not leveling up as much
00:10:50| you're not achieving the same high you're not getting as much out of it and so i think i think in one sense you've exposed that you're cheating the
00:11:00| system there are dozens of different ways to achieve that goal and i think if you apply different ways you might find they're interesting it's like
00:11:08| easy with dishonored because i can say i can stealth everyone and use like sleeping darts and break people's necks and not get caught ever and quicksave and quick load
00:11:19| and i've never seen but there's other ways to play the game i mean there's ways to level up your strength there's ways to weather level level up your health um magic
00:11:28| invisible like do you remember oh yes you do the dishonored dude who can play at incredible pace he cuts people's heads off he throws their own heads out
00:11:38| there oh and then like shoots an arrow yeah yeah yeah and shoots an arrow through that head and as he's falling off a building he's killing someone like there's other ways to cheat the
00:11:46| game or get good at the game and i think it's it's important that when you go too far in depth in one way you cheat yourself the other ways and i think
00:11:56| that's what you're missing that make sense yeah it does so i've been like mildly obsessed with playing factorio for a really long time for like three weeks now
00:12:10| how many minutes into the episode factorio yeah i well i think i'm close to the end of it at least i thought it was like maybe 100 or 200 hours ago
00:12:20| and i realized that the satisfaction i get from that game is directly linked to the complexity that i don't understand or like that i can't complime like
00:12:29| possibly get so the cheat you don't understand yeah well the whole the whole point of the game is to not do anything right it's really like you're supposed
00:12:39| to not be like bound to your physical body so you're gathering resources the resources build the things that you're like they're in
00:12:46| this little like automation thing like a little box little house and then like you need to place more of those things and route more of the things and plug things in it's like
00:12:55| routing wires so plug those in like get an amp get like guitars like bunch of like plugging amps in and like routing like audio signals like with a mixer
00:13:04| a bunch of people who like podcasts um it's the same ideas that you're routing all these things in different locations for builds or different things eventually you get to
00:13:13| the point where you have these like robots that take care of all of that and like for a while like i guess i was like there's no way to track where everything
00:13:23| is so you didn't know if your robots were doing a a productive enough job did that bother you it's no no no the robots like will
00:13:31| follow your direction but like there's no way to trace like that robot was here he did that like literally there's like 30 000 robots in the
00:13:41| like the game i'm playing now and then they automate the process so you can actually individually check on them yeah and what i didn't realize in that game is that
00:13:49| for the longest time yes you wanted to check today or make sure they weren't are you guys going on bathroom breaks i want metrics for all your robots let me see
00:14:01| your robots here what have you been up to seven minutes ago just off hand if if your life depended on have you pissed yourself yet is that
00:14:09| oh that's done you haven't you're you have um you better you better work harder yeah yes sir so guys like the complexity of it is that like
00:14:23| you could change one thing and there's a trickle down and you can actually like see it like the satisfacting satisfactory part of it
00:14:30| is that you can actually like change one piece and then you follow the supply line like you can see you can see all the changes that you make
00:14:38| it's so you're in control yeah you can you can tweak it um the crazy part that i didn't comprehend and the part that made me like
00:14:47| completely satisfact satisfied was that there are these achievements that are completely arbitrary and that's this is like life is that there's things that are
00:14:57| completely arbitrary of like xbox live achievements or in the game or oh god yeah that's fine produce whatever amount for like an hour and it's like that's hard to do so i
00:15:07| went and i started looking at and i actually like beat one of like the time ones actually it was like complete the game in eight hours
00:15:14| and i completed it in seven after failing like four times so i spent that much time doing it and like failing and learning and like understanding that like oh i was doing
00:15:26| something like inefficient eventually i got to a point where i was like okay that's not a big deal but it wasn't really that satisfying like i was just like yeah
00:15:34| i did it like woohoo i think what i figured out later was that like you can like copy and paste things and like not even like have to move and then like you could
00:15:46| just like i so in my other like i went back to my old games i took the entire base that i had built the entire [ __ ] thing and i was just
00:15:54| like boop and then boop i dropped it so i doubled i doubled my base and then all the robots are just like and then they're like they just like
00:16:02| a waves of them it's it's like it was it looked like a giant tidal wave of like robots just like dropping things it was crazy so i guess in the point of it is that like there's no way
00:16:15| i would have sat there and done that manually it's too complex for me to even like really like like draw it out but there's a piece of me that
00:16:23| understands that like this is my intention and it becomes abstract like at a certain point like there's no way i could be like
00:16:31| i like i know like everything i blueprinted and dropped down was like something i had done so there was intention when i first did it and then duplicating it it
00:16:40| was like just there's no way i could comprehend like every little piece that i did and then duplicate it and everything what i think ultimately we'll come back
00:16:51| to again is cheating i don't think anyone ever gets good at anything all the things i'm good at i just know how to cheat at and i'm not saying that
00:17:01| in like an underhanded path but like yeah shortest path but like it's it's funny when you think about it in sports so in sports i was always really good at like let's say uh hockey stick handling
00:17:16| like a not a great skater not a great anything at hockey i'm not fundamentally good at anything but i love the stick handle and when i would skate forward towards a
00:17:24| defender i literally don't even think oh what's his arm angle oh what's his probability of going left to right i just literally know that if he's kind
00:17:32| of facing inwards a little bit i can cut in like i'm going to go towards his inside and go outside and then just turn on the burners and go around them
00:17:39| there's nothing about it that's really technical or savvy like there might be on the internals of my brain but ultimately i just pick that if he's facing that way
00:17:47| maybe facing another way or like it looks like i can cross them over to the left like i'll do it i'll go back to the backhand and go in on them
00:17:54| but anything you're good at when i meet new people and i just talk with them i don't think hey i should strike up the conversation with fellow b and say these things
00:18:03| i just freaking do it and feel off of what they're feeling but there's usually a way to cheat you just you just do it you don't really think
00:18:12| about it you kind of just take this shortcut every time like you you jump start something you what you're saying you duplicate a process and then you know that if the result
00:18:24| comes back a or if it's b you pick the other or you pick vice versa and you have this this plan already laid out in your head and you don't really think about it i
00:18:32| didn't plan it but but it's there like if i talk to bryce harper about hitting a baseball he could tell me as much as he wants but he's not thinking
00:18:44| anything he's telling me he's not like you keep your shoulder up here you move your angle here when you see the ball here you got to go drive through make sure the barrel is making
00:18:51| as much contact with the center no he's just doing it he can't give you all the experiences that led up to him hitting a home run not at all and it's and he's also not thinking of them every
00:19:02| time he does it he's literally cheating he has a if if x do y and z do j you know there's a million things and but they're natural they're real quick
00:19:13| and that's the secret to anything we do in life and things can be infinitely complex like playing a sport like ice hockey where you're
00:19:21| gliding on a blade and like over ice and there's friction and you gotta take into account this and the angles but you don't take into account all of them you kind of take shortcuts
00:19:30| if he's facing this way and he's a little inside and i'm pretty sure i can beat him on speed we're doing this if he's doing you know what i mean like it's about shortcuts and i think you
00:19:40| what you're explaining what you do with factorio is a shortcut also you you know what systems kind of work you know where to cut some of the fat i don't think you
00:19:49| you literally think of every infinitesimal combination you could possibly have at every point right you just kind of know the ones
00:19:58| that sort of work the way a musician knows what patterns sort of work and musically the way that you we all know shortcuts i think shortcuts is like kind of what we
00:20:09| do and that's how we boil down all these super complex [ __ ] yeah this kind of fits into uh like mastery so like the amount of time that
00:20:21| i spent playing factorio is like sub 100 hours and like when you really master something malcolm gladwell i think calls it like
00:20:33| that's when you've like learned all you can learn that's when you become a master and that's when you like it's very seldom that you're like i doubt you are surprised by something in
00:20:42| any video game after 10 000 hours yeah you probably would not be surprised by anything i would argue that that number could change depending on what the item is playing a
00:20:52| game of checkers is probably different than uh ten thousand hours of rubric or violin or something like that in the music you know what i mean there's
00:21:02| probably a difference but but to a degree x amount of hours doing something mundane or not um practice or not freelance or not like you will run into
00:21:12| so many things after 10 000 hours you're probably not running into anything now yeah so you know all the cheat codes yeah and the learn processes are probably
00:21:19| subliminal like you like subconscious you just like kind of execute the pieces that you don't need to think about but you know are the best because you've already been through those scenarios
00:21:28| multiple times which i'm calling cheat codes but like think of it i mean it's it's literally you have x y i always do x even if it's probability based
00:21:37| probability is that it will work out in the end it'll be better for you it doesn't always work but i mean there's no perfect response for anything i don't think is there uh oh
00:21:48| is instead of perfection in a it depends what i guess checkers or hockey or this or that or violin is there perfection in violin or guitar
00:21:58| i have no idea i don't know man maybe like perfect notes or something like imagine like someone telling you you're like slightly off well violin's
00:22:06| crazy because you don't have like frets right so like you could be slightly off but what if it evokes more emotion to be slightly off well which which is better
00:22:18| i guess that's that's a good point what so what is perfect here's something that's um crazy that i thought we were going to get into i don't know we will so bring it up
00:22:28| when you say complex something can be so complex where if you're playing a violin or something like that and you're playing a note what's
00:22:38| happening chemically between your fingers and like the wood of the board and like the string and even more more chem more than
00:22:50| chemically what happens molecularly so let's say there's a lot of carbon and hydrogen in your fingers do they actually cross over into the the molecules or the atoms of the violin
00:23:02| they have to right there's no way they don't touch it interference between them you have sweaty palms or something how much how much crossover is there are
00:23:11| there like you know a couple hundred thousand of my atoms cross over into the its atoms is that is that what happens i have no idea so those were they this are they
00:23:21| miles apart i have no idea so i love this one and i know a lot about science got it i know i know science i'm the best scientist i'm the best of
00:23:30| science i'm just telling you friggin your molecules how far apart are they so i love this one subreddit uh artisan videos
00:23:38| and there was one that i showed you about the the father and son making guitars yes and it was like it was a long video yeah it was like an hour long
00:23:49| but like the way they went back and forth about things i didn't understand and they're like you know they're like making like the bends in the wood and then like
00:23:57| talking about in a way i've never heard anybody talk about it and they both kind of like like say what you know like they would just kind of look at each other and nod
00:24:06| and be like i i like this like this like i don't even know what terms they were using and then they'd both be like yeah well yeah yeah yeah yeah i think just
00:24:14| and then like they would just do it and just like kind of quietly like do things that i could never like i don't think i could ever do like i don't know how
00:24:22| to make a guitar they had an entire workshop filled with these like tiny like these tools that just kind of like oh if we use this like let me grab that other like whatever jig and then like
00:24:33| tension over here and it puts a bend in the neck just the right angle where string tension will make sure that these notes ring out in such a way
00:24:42| that like it's more hollow body but like you can feel the resonance down lower than you would in a restructural guitar built here and you're like sure like you'd be saying this
00:24:54| some guy buys that guitar that we do think we literally watched yeah well [ __ ] it let's say he does know it it's in his house he plays it a bunch of
00:25:03| times whatever he has kids uh eventually his kid's like 16 all right the kids into um whatever comes after like mickey mouse club it's like something in like the
00:25:13| year 2040. it's some really corny ass [ __ ] but he's he kind of likes guitar because his dad has all these nice guitars he picks up that guitar and he's playing the world's
00:25:25| most incorrect tab for the mickey mouse theme song and he's playing it to impress his friends right while he's doing this like he was eating
00:25:34| ice cream he has sticky fingers it's all over the thing he's playing incorrectly on maybe the world's most beautiful instrument like while that's going on
00:25:42| there's a news report that world war three has started literally there are bombs being dropped children in yemen have literally been cut in half pieces blown to smithereens
00:25:53| like there's a weird thing where what's the the history of this instrument the disdain for this 16 year old child who shouldn't
00:26:03| be able to hold something that expensive discord that care thought yeah and then while it's going on there's world war iii has just started there are millions
00:26:12| who died and this is flashing across the screens everywhere how do you justify all three of those things happening at once let alone where they are in relation to
00:26:21| the sun and the earth whether it's a full moon that night and whether there's so many what i'm saying is complexity can get really [ __ ] complex
00:26:32| it kind of sounded like serendipity and the bad like is there a bad version of serendipity or is it still serendipity chaos
00:26:39| chaos dippity [Laughter] sarin disparity i don't know i'm trying to think a word but yeah yeah i don't know i don't know there's
00:26:52| so there's what i was thinking about right before you went into that uh diatribe or whatever that was sorry was like so these the achievements that
00:27:04| like i was going for were like purely numerical or they're time based or like they're very like structured so it's very like you know it's definitive it's like a requirement
00:27:13| fulfill requirement pretty much if you have a finished track with millions of machines and millions of resources you can divert all of them and cheat to like focus and
00:27:22| make this one thing to get this achievement did you ever play a game that was like the whole game was like get achievements i was like
00:27:32| every possibility was like you you did or did not do this therefore you get an achievement for not doing it or doing it it wasn't stanley powerball correct no no no it was it was much simpler than
00:27:42| that like the whole game was just like figure out how to get all the achievements and it was just like made it was just like a running simulator like you were like
00:27:50| jumping on stuff and it's like congratulations you jumped once achievement it's like you jump twice achievement and it's like
00:27:57| it's just nuts yeah it's hilarious because that's totally playing into that perfectionist thing but like tongue-in-cheek i would hope yes yeah i think what she
00:28:06| would like you what you get on what you like when you actually like something uh so like in say um assassin's creed or like crackdown or i'm sure there's other ones
00:28:17| oh uh rush it had like keys in the city it has these like floating orbs or flags it's like there's a completion and completionist element to it to like
00:28:27| collect them all you gotta catch them all right so i feel like the achievements are there to give you a goal to make you
00:28:37| accept that the number doesn't matter like no matter how many orbs or keys or you know flags they put out there you just enjoy playing the game so you want to
00:28:47| complete the game in the eyes of the creator so what you're talking about is like a uh play it get every ending get every
00:28:57| weapon get every experience from the game play through as this character play through as this character you want every playthrough
00:29:03| when every weapon you want to experience all the endings and you want to experience all the the play styles everything you just love the game let's that
00:29:11| all the complexity of the game because there's nuances in there right because when you start to learn a little bit more about that final whatever you're getting
00:29:20| you're like oh you make a realization that like oh they designed it this way because of that or you know this is like a little delayed because
00:29:28| this has to happen or or it's really spaced but it's just funny you say this because i'm not a um completionist guy yeah there's one game in my steam
00:29:37| library that has a hundred percent how was it and i'm pretty sure i know what it was i just want to make sure i'll buy you time by by talking about complexity because we
00:29:46| play these games as like you know the basis is the game what people don't ever take into account is like achieving something while playing a
00:29:57| computer like a game on a computer is probably like the ultimate ultimately the most complex thing you could possibly do right because the very origin of things
00:30:11| like electricity transistors like having a computer like playing it being on the internet and like maybe multiplayer actually being like connected to like
00:30:20| the community of people talking about the game and then having developers like spend a year like making the physics or like how
00:30:28| things interact like the level of complexity that goes into a video game is like built on all of this technology that you can't there's no possible way
00:30:38| you can comprehend like the internet there's no way you like you can go to one little piece and be like take away like a few pieces from it read a website well read a website web
00:30:47| page like figure out this one thing but the entirety of life is figuring out like one thing and then like okay next thing and then like you make
00:30:57| little connections along the way sometimes you hit a bunch of connections which are in a inside inside that was it was like the highest level of
00:31:09| achievement like what was the best one the best one well i had 100 on that one uh no i mean like out of all those achievements which one do you remember
00:31:20| um pulling the worm out of the pig's ass you remember i didn't do that maybe i did do that one i don't know he probably did because like it's just a weird thing
00:31:30| where might be like yeah yeah you're like what the hell is going on here dude where'd that worm come from uh there's just like what you said i would agree with and
00:31:41| disagree with i don't think it's the most complex thing in the world but what's interesting enough is making a computer game is trying to simulate a life experience
00:31:54| and ironically it's on a simulation machine so what you said is very true and kind of very funny so you have to power up your electronic simulation machine to power
00:32:04| on your simulation which is constantly being updated with different graphics card things uh programming things fixes community workarounds like
00:32:14| add-ons bonus features like stuff that they also have to the cool thing about a video game is that a video game creator has to account for or make you be able to do
00:32:27| a billion different choices like you have to be able to run here and then here and then do the achievement or here and then here and then do the achievement or here here and not do the
00:32:37| achievement or here and here and here here and here here and then here and then do the achievement like there's so many you could do everything quickly slowly
00:32:45| the wrong way the right way and i think that is kind of cool so you touched on like distilling down to an essence of something
00:32:54| and like i aspire to make video games in the future i've not made like a complete one yet i've like pieces of them but like i'll have ideas for games
00:33:06| when hell was the guy who made factorial he got talking younger than i uh yeah he's younger than me ever was yeah but
00:33:16| like i have these little ideas and i think you touched on it is that you're trying to emulate like an essence of of something that you experienced when you were younger
00:33:24| and you're trying to replicate it or like capture what it is to like in factorio capture what it is to like manage like everything down to like the minutes
00:33:34| detail and like see the ripple effect of it like very few things in real life like you can actually see the ripple effects
00:33:43| like you might be able to throw a stone in the water and that's the most like closely related thing but i think you can problem is they take reliable because in 10 years you might
00:33:56| not care you know what it means like the cool thing about a simulation is i want to see what it looks like in five minutes fortune in this venture in life and see
00:34:07| how that turns out in 15 years let's wait like you know no one has that so what you're saying is yours is a it's a sped up
00:34:17| version of some version of life i think so and i i think i like games like that because i need that like i need the the satisfaction i need do you like to
00:34:30| know what the alternatives are like do you like to no no the alternatives to like a a decision or a choice oh yeah like do you like to play through
00:34:40| possibly so when you play first-person shooters like dishonored etc um there are spots where you can decide to take a room by stealth um you can take over an enemy and use
00:34:52| magic there's brute force you go in guns blazing do you ever do a quick save before the room 100 there's like 11 guys in here
00:35:00| and you go in and do it one way and you literally beat it but then you're like what a this is have you played arkham asylum batman that's one of the ones where you
00:35:11| can like chain things together and fight people like he can fight like legitimately like a dozen people at the same time and how you like using this special
00:35:21| power and a punch combo and yeah you can like use multiples of people as a combo into another person and then it's just like the
00:35:30| it just like blows your mind that you can understand that like oh if i get this group of people and like do this thing to them then they're gonna be knocked down and i could spin
00:35:39| off of them and then kick that guy in the face while kicking the other guy in the face and then jump up there and then it's just like it it does something that just like hits on a nerve where you're
00:35:49| just like like it's so so much happiness that you like figured it out and also it just i don't know it's awesome because you've never seen it
00:35:58| before like most games don't do that they don't allow you to do that and they're like structured in a way that like you just broke like you broke the structure of
00:36:07| most video games by like executing that one move i love it did they want you to do that yeah the quick safe yeah oh 100 yeah the creators wanted you to
00:36:21| do that correct yeah what you do not like the way you like lock on other guys yeah like the way you can like choose which guy to lock onto or like your next
00:36:29| move you're like chaining your moves together by like figuring out how you move through the crowd of people and it's pretty awesome i didn't beat it and i didn't get to the point where i'm
00:36:39| fighting dozens like i'll fight like five and six guys in a room and it's pretty badass and i got different like power-ups and i'm choosing my path now but
00:36:47| no i don't think i've come across that but that's pretty i'll keep going so the quick save part of it i get that so like the quick save what game quick save the most in
00:37:00| i like buy this i know mine mine was half life one i don't maybe like a resident evil maybe quick save a lot because you're like did that have quick safe
00:37:11| i don't think it did feel like you had ribbons you had to have ribbons in a freaking typewriter which was awful by the way yeah it makes it so that you have to
00:37:20| plan it out but you have to know in advance when it's like playing it multiple times helped a lot yep which is what i did i like have you
00:37:28| played the great games over and over again yeah yeah metal metal solid i got the ribbon i got the stealth thing i finished different endings for that
00:37:37| game this is what i was going to ask you what did you over completionize as far as games i actually did that with resident evil 2 i got like all different endings
00:37:45| i tried to get tofu i did not get tofu you know tofu was yeah i got tofu waka tofu you got the block of tofu yeah did you have to beat that at a certain
00:37:54| time using like less than bullets than usual or something yeah yeah i have to let this one now his name was hunk right i think it was wait and what was your power so you boot
00:38:07| up the game as a piece of tofu with a knife is that what it was which isn't a cool thing which is hilarious i think that's so resident evil 2 was
00:38:16| great because i beat it with leon i beat it with claire i beat it with like no grenades i beat it with all grenade launchers i beat it with infinite ammo i made it with
00:38:25| just different things fighting nemesis and everything ada wong and then there's a crocodile that eats a canister you're going to blow its face off
00:38:34| games like that you play through again and again i enjoy those this is solid it says that you beat it once as one character and there's the other character
00:38:44| and then uh there's like a fourth survivor mode which i don't remember at all yeah at all they re-released this game so maybe it's easier to get um hunk in
00:38:53| that new mode anyway you could play as a block of tofu which had no power-ups or any real help in your life
00:39:01| and people strive to do it i never actually did it jealous yeah you know well yeah you're a loser nick it's okay that'll get you solid i
00:39:13| every which way from wednesday probably that game like seven ten times this is your passion it's crazy because like a passion for a game like just i feel like you you
00:39:24| live the experience of the game so much so that you enjoy just the being of the game which is a really strange thing yeah yeah we both
00:39:34| understand thoroughly how the game feels and we're connected to it in a way that just like there's a feedback loop and i was like yeah it should be this way
00:39:43| and we expect it and like watching us the difference there's watching other people fail at the same thing because you both have equal playing ground or whatever you would call equal
00:39:54| playing ground with playing different central yeah each other different right yeah there's an inherent advantage that i think we had that
00:40:03| you just kind of you absorb it and once you're in it the i don't know but isn't that again isn't that cheating not even to take away from it because cheating is just finding something
00:40:17| not a glitch finding a shortcut finding a glitch finding something that wasn't necessarily intended or overt and just hammering it again and again because
00:40:27| we learned how to dodge bullets how to hide behind cover how ducking around the corner at the last second will avoid gunfire how you can technically hit the stab
00:40:36| button when your x amount of feet away even though it should be a little closer it no it'll count times certain guns and like how fast you can move
00:40:45| how they like only have certain exits or certain entries you know that like 90 something percent of the time they're going to go this way first because everyone's shooting
00:40:59| so it's funny we got we got very into video games yeah we did that's because it's this is the most like how how else can you play out the most
00:41:10| uh possibilities which is kind of what we're pointing at with complexity is that in life you only really get like you know
00:41:18| you make your own choices but your choices take a lot longer and like even like your emotional scale like it takes a while for emotions to click in and then like
00:41:26| if you feel like depressed about something it's like very hard to figure out like why like why do i feel this way like people don't understand their own
00:41:34| emotions which is very bizarre so they don't like they might have just achieved something like great they might have been like at the top of whatever their game and
00:41:42| they'd be like ah like i i guess i guess i got it you know it doesn't like sometimes it doesn't register well it's a weird point it's true it's like
00:41:52| we talked about that in mastery when you've worked so hard for something and you put so many hours into it by the time you do it whatever it is execute the deal perform
00:42:02| a symphony do all this stuff you're not doing some grand thing that you've never done before you're doing something you've practiced for 9 000
00:42:10| hours it just feels like another practice day so when you've done it you finished it you probably don't even hear the joy in it you just heard maybe where i
00:42:18| almost made a mistake maybe where i could have cleaned this up maybe where i did this and someone else hears wow i don't know anyone could play that
00:42:25| good or i didn't know anyone could do this that good and you're just like yeah i'm pretty good but i missed a couple notes
00:42:32| i gotta clean that up tomorrow i'll practice for like four hours like you know what i mean yeah that's like the movie the truman show that's where the guy lives entire life
00:42:41| being filmed he has no idea and then he finally breaks free and then it goes through the people that are like celebrating and like cheering because he finally escaped
00:42:50| the bubble that he was forced to live in and then like the comment was like oh what do you want to watch now and change the channel did you see the uh tweet going around
00:43:03| about that the attention to detail in that movie no why i just wanna it went around two days ago and it was about uh the attention details insane like they
00:43:12| show you the cameras and everything i'll share it with you it was just funny it came up two days ago what do you mean like give us an example because you're you're
00:43:22| ruining pressure on it autobahn do you know where he meets the brothers or the twins or whatever they are every day and like they're like heavyset
00:43:30| and they laugh and stuff and they have a business that he never goes inside okay it's intentional that the front of their business ends and you can see like a
00:43:40| drain at the bottom and being like what why would it and it's like oh it's a farce all the newspaper episodes if you look at all the newspapers zoomed
00:43:50| in they show you it's the number of days truman has been alive so the episode will say like x v x i i i i'm not good at roman numeral math on
00:44:01| the run while i'm doing an episode but it would be like 32 complex ears yeah um like there's just a lot of detail so they put cameras like the little black
00:44:12| circles with the bubbles that's like a camera like a security camera on everything in that show intentionally not to hide it from anyone to show you that he's being filmed
00:44:22| it's on like half the trash cans you see in the city that people are wheeling out it's in his office in the background it's on all these buildings it's everywhere
00:44:31| like someone had circled it well just i'll again i'll share this thing and it's like oh that's pretty cool like they really cared about the details that made me hit on um okay
00:44:43| like sometimes you meet people that are like too quick and this i mean i worked for nasa for a really long time so there's a lot of people that are like trying to be quick
00:44:52| and what i found is that like sometimes people respond quicker than i can like work through a scenario and i wonder like how like how are they thinking so fast and then
00:45:02| after a long period of time i realized that like after years i realized that like there's a lot of people that like to jump to the conclusion without actually
00:45:09| like reasoning out all the possible scenarios and they just want to be like the herald they want to skip over everything and just be like hey i got to this point
00:45:16| and it's like you know 90 of the time they're like yeah they skip to the right point like they thought about the right point for long enough but they didn't really think about all
00:45:25| the like odd ends the possibilities that you know they didn't reason it all out check this out what you're describing is the opposite of like an autistic spectrum
00:45:37| he's like let's say you were like super autistic super like and not like you couldn't function in society but where you refuse to accept things for um
00:45:48| a forsaken conclusion without going through all of the facts and you're like he did say hello and good morning but it was afternoon did he mean good
00:45:56| afternoon we should review more facts he did this you could go on for hours reviewing everything someone did said or whatever what they could have meant and what they
00:46:06| would have meant but if you really spent double the time you did what would we call that a big waste of time yeah
00:46:13| i mean i i don't disagree but that individual i put my mind behind them whether they got it right in the end you know what i mean i'm like yeah you're
00:46:24| right dude he was making fun of you at breakfast the other day yeah you got it i didn't do your nose i do this with like when i was like dating women i would
00:46:33| always like super over analyze everything like did they really mean that and then like you look back at the other day like yesterday like oh [ __ ] like why did i
00:46:41| say that like i know she meant oh crap but that's you think about this dude so hold on you're married right yeah did you think of anything your wife may have said cutting at dinner within
00:46:50| two dinners ago i think it's a little dry was she giving real criticism or was she actually oh she was just saying it is like a passing comment
00:47:00| oh wait a minute she said it was dry a month ago wednesday when you know what i mean like you could it was so easy yeah i don't know it wasn't even
00:47:10| human i don't so yeah i i don't there's a point where i guess what you feel the emotion between two people yeah no what you feel between two people
00:47:23| has nothing to do with what you say and after a long period of time you realize that like what you're saying like the the details might be completely ridiculous and
00:47:32| make no sense at all but you can share like information with another person without ever making sense and they can enjoy it excuse me it's different guys and girls
00:47:42| different different between them like sharing information yeah 100 yeah sure if you live with them let's say me and you live together do you think it would
00:47:50| be different or would you say anything like grunts no no you would you say this i bought the last three toothpastes i thought maybe when you bought one you
00:47:59| would buy the same one we always have and i'd say like this oh this one was on sale i just i just got that one and you'd say oh well it doesn't have extra whitening
00:48:09| you have to see it a little bit i'd say and say well we got three tubes of whitening one without we'll do three more tubes of waiting what's the big deal
00:48:19| i turn around and go back to what i was doing and it would annoy you because it would be like tapping yeah then you'd be like you'd be like well that's funny because
00:48:28| my three tubes cost nineteen dollars your one two cost four dollars that's doesn't seem to add up yeah that's like me eating like corn on the cob and then tasting the butter on
00:48:38| it and go like is this unsalted butter i can imagine her saying what that's all they had it's coronavirus like it was hard to shop and you're like
00:48:55| i don't try not there was salted butter right next to this unsalted butter how dare you have any footage it's the same price i checked online so it's funny we got here but it's like
00:49:11| like complexity complexity or satisfaction or i don't know well human interaction is like the most complex thing because it i think it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
00:49:20| and then to have like a male and a female counterpart like battling in really weird obscure ways it's just like a like a learning experience and it's like it's not
00:49:31| necessarily that you like become better at things it's just become more tolerable when you become more entrenched in things those battles become battles
00:49:39| later on i would tell you the opposite i would say as you grow live longer you're trying not to well no no i'm
00:49:51| i have this theory that the reason life seems to go faster every year is for two reasons and we've literally discussed it one when you're
00:50:01| two years old one year is fifty percent of your life yeah you really fifty percent of your life that's a long freaking time if you're 90 it's 19th of your life
00:50:13| fraction someone do a fraction 10 i don't [ __ ] know it doesn't matter anyway when you're 90. one year is like when you're 90 and you add one year yeah what is that
00:50:31| say move that decimal anyway it's 1.1 percent of your life so imagine of your life right now and you're like yep just did it again like a natural progression everything seems
00:50:44| like it's moving quicker two you make so many new connections find so many new people and you you hardly ever sever entirely old connections
00:50:55| in fact what i would say is you develop these things like i have a friend who contacts me every four years i have a friend oh my aunt i really have to visit her
00:51:04| every eight years um you run into these things that are like pattern developed but you've never experienced these patterns until you
00:51:12| know a pattern that's 40 years old i don't even know a 40 year old pattern i'm not there yet maybe there is one every 40 years x happens so now i have to add
00:51:22| this pattern into my one year pattern into my things that happen every week things that happen every day friends that show up every three months every other year and then like all these
00:51:32| things keep conjoining and you are so entwined with so many god damn things conversations drama people you know
00:51:42| uncles that hit you up because they're drunk every four years and three months for whatever reason and it's just crazy because they won't go away unless they die and we're hoping they
00:51:54| don't die but then again maybe on the anniversary of their death everyone kind of calls each other and then you have that extra connection to
00:52:02| do and there are literally so many things and anniversaries and people and occurrences and cycles that show up in your life the longer you
00:52:13| live that you literally run out of time that's what kills us i've decided the most complex complexity of life is what kills us
00:52:24| it's like a tree my roots get so deep i can't move left i can't move right you think i could decide to just go to costa rica tomorrow good day not permanently
00:52:36| not even for like an hour i get in big trouble so this is an off the wall topic but when you die how do you want to be celebrated
00:52:51| i think this actually sounds [ __ ] up and i think this is ultimately a weird thing it should be good it's not this is the sad part i wanted
00:53:01| people to like drink crazy amount of beers and like raise glasses and tell crazy stories about something i did or like this one time i did whatever or bury my ashes
00:53:11| and everyone gets so crazy wasted and has a great time and no one's crying and all this but like ultimately what if it's like the divorce date for one of my friends or like
00:53:24| for somebody yo yeah what if it is i don't get the pick he doesn't get the pic and then what if it's like some girl i used to date and um
00:53:31| um she's actually getting eye surgery that day yeah [ __ ] up she had something wrong with her eye and it's like she couldn't even make the funeral
00:53:38| and then like what if like my dad is like really sad he's still alive somehow because usually you know parents i love the kids all that and he's like he's like uh i want to go
00:53:48| and he goes and he wants to say all these things because he's emotional everything but he's like not a good public speaker and he feels sick to his stomach and he has bad fish
00:53:56| in the morning and then like he can't even speak breakfast he said breakfast fish i don't know why he did it it was a crazy thing but like what if all this [ __ ] happens
00:54:07| they hire a priest because they don't know what i wanted and like the priest is terrible and it's like a long boring mess and they bury my ass and then everyone's
00:54:15| like ah i gotta drive tonight it's tuesday big day i work tomorrow i might get a promotion like i'm not gonna begrudge any of these
00:54:23| people to make any of these decisions because that's just life so what's gonna happen it's gonna be like a regular [ __ ] day where some people are sad and i'm like [ __ ]
00:54:32| i wish people had this epic matrix party where they had an orgy and like everybody's sweating and dripping all over each other doing nuts
00:54:45| but ultimately it's gonna be a tuesday for someone it's gonna be someone's wedding anniversary it's gonna be a day someone has an eye exam later in the day you and your extended family from every
00:54:56| age range just like raving and sweating and chanting and pounding bodies together grandmas and i would love it but it's gonna be way more boring than that
00:55:07| do you think you might ever portray it right what do you what do you think what how do i want to be remember wish for whatever you want remember i when it goes it's going to be
00:55:16| boring it's going to be a regular tuesday or something and people are going to be sad don't get me wrong i just i don't know i feel like it whatever the
00:55:24| traditional thing is like bury you say mass like it it's always off the mark i think i would always want to have something unique and special and i think
00:55:32| i'd probably make it so like something crazy what do you want yeah i told you about the best way to go man hire two helicopters
00:55:40| drop your body from the top or under the blades underneath and just shower everywhere grand theft auto oh my god it's so beautiful
00:55:50| that would be horrendous about all the people below the helicopter the second helicopter yes no that's the whole point yeah check this if you had the money for it
00:56:02| could you even ensure it's going to happen even if you paid them ahead of time the helicopter people yeah and they signed off
00:56:10| on chopping up their body and just showering people on entrails your intros would they even do it and you're dead who's who's gonna argue with them if they're
00:56:20| like we really can't we're gonna send this money back we really appreciate it but it's against our judgment which that would make me so mad but you're
00:56:27| dead maybe probably find you like clinically insane you get put in a mental hospital and then you would be able to get no you're dead before you even get there what after you
00:56:38| know what if you have jeff bezos money you could probably pass the law through and get people to sign off on it but are they really going to do it once he's dead they're like he was
00:56:48| [ __ ] nuts we're not doing that right no we're not doing that we're good it's like really creative assisted suicide oh that's the only way you can guarantee
00:56:57| it is if you're still living and it was your way to die and you're like all right sir step out of the helicopter into the other helicopter
00:57:12| oh my god the little points are below enjoy your trip to valhalla sir oh my god i was just oh there's one story about like the easiest way that like they're legitimately is a group
00:57:27| that will help you like hands off help you assisted suicide it's like the most peaceful way and that's like the reverse of like
00:57:35| i guess you wouldn't feel it i think it's cool but you might like you might still have like you might be a severed head that can still blink and look around and like
00:57:43| that's what bothers me the most really there's like like five seconds you probably have no feeling anymore what if they like somehow it like cauterized like
00:57:52| your neck and then you're just like you steal ultimate feel yeah how do you feel the most pain is like helicopter blades sound like
00:58:00| yeah that's that's probably not a good way come on dude this is do you know why animals like you see a squirrel that's been run over but it's still alive
00:58:11| yeah mm-hmm how much pain do you think it's feeling oh the worst it's got to be the worst i think so dude i think it's just overload your body can't take that much pain
00:58:20| squirrels could scream i think you'd be they'd think differently if you're just like damn squirrels i've never heard a squirrel scream
00:58:35| i think i think we overestimate how much pain there is and dying or like being eviscerated or like cutting probably yeah you probably really don't feel it until you only feel so much pain and
00:58:44| then your body's just like you're you're shocked you can't move your legs it's like this weird blinding numbing sound and you're dying and it's like hey cool i can't
00:58:53| move my arms i don't know so back to what i want when i die not that not that i think not that i think what i want is to have it
00:59:06| like in a way that makes it more adventurous for other people like i want people to like take this like token of whatever i give them and
00:59:13| anna jones so boulder's gonna come down and you all grab you have to make it to the exit now that would be cool i would appreciate that yeah or like some people like take ashes
00:59:28| and they sprinkle them wherever and like that seems so tacky because like no one really knows where you want to go so there's like if you leave it open
00:59:36| oh my ash is somewhere cool we have like a bucket list of places you wanted to go but you're like forcing other people to go there no yeah no that's too much like one spot
00:59:45| and it's like a cool spot like i want to go to the beach and then you know a shark's mouth and i want the shark to poop it out you have to wait for a great white to
00:59:55| jump out of the water and shoot my ashes into its mouth this great white has to poop at 7 47 p.m in the direction of the sun there was probably so much wait what the
01:00:12| hell do you want no i don't know what the hell you want when you die i think i want other people to experience yeah like they go to the funeral like i'd rather
01:00:20| just have a party for one like your rave so other people enjoy themselves and then be like i hope they discover something new like if you said go go to like
01:00:30| that redwood forest in like california where there's like general german and you've never been there like put that token like by a tree or something like i give you like a
01:00:38| physical thing this is like like this is a piece of dan dan's in this wood is it is it [ __ ] up i have a pretty good chance to give your eulogy
01:00:46| um no you're gonna die before me so probably oh no i totally think so but if i don't guess what i i would actually i think people other
01:00:57| people would enjoy that i'd i would have enjoyed it if i was still alive at my usual chat well it's literally not for you it would be for other people and i did a podcast
01:01:05| with you that's crazy dude i know you more than a lot of people this is uh yeah this is like a factorio
01:01:17| at our 273 in five minutes you can see dan clicking here to copy and paste his base oh i could figure out how many just look at the complexity there's no way anyone can conceive of
01:01:31| factorio or human life as we yeah that's exactly as you can see here after dan's perfect experiment stopped working your mom's just crying people are just
01:01:49| crying and i'm like but let's look to the brighter moments like call of duty four or a pole by a gallop that shows that it shows his happiness was actually in
01:02:01| the 96 range based on his ethnicity age and financial well-being did you um come across this one there we go so the self
01:02:18| which is like you know like you take uh spiritual or religious courses in high school or whatever and you you base your life on the self there's four
01:02:27| um concepts self-concept self-esteem social self and self knowledge make up yourself and i actually didn't think that was bad
01:02:39| so the concept of yourself which is what you think you are what you think you're good at what you think you're bad at what you think you are going to be good at bad etc
01:02:49| self-esteem how you feel about that i'm confident in my abilities to do x i feel weird about my hips oh my god i have love handles
01:03:00| social self which is how you think your peers see you kind of uh how you see them et cetera et cetera where you fit in society and then self knowledge which
01:03:09| was like how much you actually know about yourself your greatest fears who's gonna give your eulogy that kind of fun stuff and all of that makes up you which goes
01:03:19| to your life satisfaction which i'm not going to read the whole article because it looked long but those things make up who we are and i think that's pretty good and pretty
01:03:32| i don't know makes sense when was the last time you were satisfied there we go not physically mentally satisfied oh mentally um i go through spurts where
01:03:49| i'm totally in inebriated with depression and hates my life etc and then i go through phases where i'm like yeah yo can you imagine and i say
01:04:03| something like yo uh the other day i totally got on the phone i was like maybe you should check the website you don't have a website and i'm like
01:04:12| better get it before it runs away if you say like a corny joke or do something hilarious like and hang up on someone or something you smile so hard that it doesn't matter
01:04:27| can you laugh so hard at a joke that the rest of your life doesn't matter i feel like i've heard or told some jokes that were so funny that if my life was horrible i'd be like
01:04:41| yo but hold up let me just life around are you going to tell your shovel face so what are we talking about let's wrap it up yeah come back around what did the even
01:04:58| episode have to do it it was self um confidence for me for you it was the i guess the expectation of certain things that
01:05:15| you know you're already sitting at a base that's like you're pretty well off you have a lot of things going on and as you get older those pieces like become very varied and very difficult to like
01:05:25| hone in on balance yeah and so you get a weird kind of despair where like i think that's why i played that video game so much is that like nothing that i could get the
01:05:36| satisfaction from and there's no way i could comprehend like the outcome of something that might take years to have like come to a head
01:05:47| so i guess that's the essence of it is that like life becomes so like vague yet more complex and more intricate and there's no way to comprehend all that
01:05:58| and bring it all in and like really digest it except if you play video game and you can get an achievement and it makes you feel
01:06:07| like you did something beyond the achievement i know this is great i think everything gets broader you just have so many new
01:06:19| endeavors talents things you dabble in people you know i also feel like there should be more achievements after you like after 40. like life is such such that like it's marketed towards people
01:06:32| that are younger than 40. like after you reach the stage i'll say check this i used to think once you're like 25 like that's it that's everything's
01:06:43| marketed dude clothes yeah video games going out to party now i'm 35 i feel like anyone over 35 i meant it can roll it's yeah you can keep
01:06:55| rolling it back and there is it's just like do you care about instagram models anymore or like actually looks like this is ridiculous so
01:07:05| so what do you think you're gonna do with friggin 45 dude you're gonna laugh at people who are 35 it's not going to change you're just moving the goal post and you will find
01:07:12| your own group and do you know how many 45 year olds there will be when you're 45 dozens literally dozens in the world that are there 45 with you so
01:07:25| i think you're very attuned to your own age group your own section of life your own people the own everyone's born your own helicopter blades so
01:07:40| so in in 10 years or so you'll find new helicopter blades to focus on what i will say is this is crazy and i didn't think of this before but what
01:07:50| we're talking about it's like diminishing returns and it's like you can put so much into a thing and when you first do it i put 10 in
01:08:04| holy [ __ ] sir you put 10 in sir that's incredible this is off the charts i gotta talk to my my manager now you're a 50 stockholder and it's
01:08:14| like i put one percent and they're like one percent can you put a little more now like you're like 40 you got a family you got a business you're doing this for the
01:08:23| company and everything and they're like i spent an extra 80 hours doing this this year and they're like and it's like damn diminishing returns
01:08:35| much goodness gracious you don't ever have it the opposite way where you've done something for so long that you expect it not to pay out and then
01:08:44| at the end of it you realize something it like it just changes your brain ever since you finally like oh you never had that realization at the
01:08:53| end and go damn i've wasted all this time if i had only known you know i think everything's wasted time i'm saying the
01:09:02| exact that but to the nth degree like like in business and everything and people are like you barely did anything and i'm like that's years of my life you can't say
01:09:12| that that's offensive i'm gonna cancel you you can't say that not in this culture you're done as a person i will say this everything's like a
01:09:25| [ __ ] fractal you zoom in enough it's complex as [ __ ] you zoom out enough it's complex as [ __ ] no one gets why you can zoom in you can zoom out
01:09:36| you can simplify it you can complexify it you can do whatever the [ __ ] you want no one has the answer no matter how focused you are no matter unfocused you are
01:09:45| no matter how many relationships you have no matter how many relationships you think you have it's all [ __ ] all folks yeah i said a bad word
01:09:56| come cancel us but it's way more complicated than you think okay so i couldn't follow the bit all the way i was gonna
01:10:10| check our socials and see what you gotta say to finish it up [ __ ] all folks because we like you [ __ ] all folks we like you we like you like just enough without like
01:10:23| wanting to smack you and get sued by you so okay check our links check our socials check all the stuff we do every single day online
01:10:33| yeah yeah go ahead do that do it do that do it you should thanks we like it oh my god
00:00:23| mix letters together make words sentences it's infinite how can you even comprehend everything that has been tied into
00:00:35| numbers and letters and even more than that in the visual in games and the complexity of human life let's talk about that
00:00:54| so i'm dan and i'm nick folks we're old friends dissecting one topic at a time people technology media we've got it all covered each discussion here is a deep dive into
00:01:06| our unique perspective taboo forbidden subjects they're all on the chopping block baby we don't pander to popular opinion we might even get a little bit dirty
00:01:18| this podcast may contain mature language and sexual content and it's for infotainment purposes only so join us have a good time open up your ear holes
00:01:29| because we're going to fondle your [Music] follicles [Music] so i'm dan you know i'm nick folks
00:01:51| we're the unpanderers and today we're talking about some pretty complex things so uh if you're under 18 if you're under if you're under 70. maybe uh maybe they don't have to tune in check
00:02:06| the cliff notes you're going to be feeling it real complex you think let's take a moment to thank our sponsors yeah i think we don't have any
00:02:17| we might but even if we did would we pander no we wouldn't thank them anyway [Laughter] oh [ __ ] that was awesome to amazon
00:02:29| for delivering my packages today when i paid for you to do that so we're going to talk about complexity comprehension and then satisfaction weird that they're
00:02:41| all related you would think they aren't but maybe they are i don't know i'm going to tie this together but i'm sure we can [ __ ] our way to it
00:02:48| i doubt it my money's on the other guy tonight i'm gonna begin with like like life becomes more complex as you get older you get
00:03:00| you get less pure things like you get little like droplets of like emotion here and there that's like sprinkled in there a little you know they call them sprinkles or
00:03:10| jimmies in some locations um you know yeah uh jimmy's also jimmy cavs but never mind um so you get sprinkles of happiness and
00:03:21| like little like got you moments epiphanies like those things bring you happiness bring you satisfaction but it gets kind of stranger because
00:03:30| like after a period of time you kind of experienced all you can experience and then you kind of live vicariously and kind of like the second time around it's just like
00:03:38| haha and then you're kind of like okay and then eventually you kind of if you do the same thing over and over again you say like is that all there is
00:03:48| so people are constantly pulling in more and more complex things to make it more and more challenging to make it more satisf satisfying is this diminishing returns can we just
00:03:59| skip ahead to the end and we're done no [Laughter] it is what you were just discussing kind of is you're doing the same thing over
00:04:10| and over you have to up the ante so like i call it diminishing returns uh the drug user fallacy um to get the same high you have to use more drugs to get the same high you have to
00:04:21| use more drugs and then as you get more and more different conditions to a response it may be so or even an alcoholic you have to drink more and more get to the
00:04:29| same high like you have to keep reset you have to oh well of course but who's doing that we're all chasing that that good fun stuff silly human so but that's like diminishing returns
00:04:45| like you're getting the same gold in a little handheld uh phone game and you have to just get more of that gold you can get 10 times as much gold to just get to
00:04:54| the next level but you're doing it because it's like you're damp oh i love gold i love next level i love leveling up that's a number right it's a number
00:05:02| scheme it is but it can you tie those things to real life things like is it a number of drugs we can do to get to the next level is it a number of money we'll get
00:05:13| that will get us a promotion that'll get us to the next level is there are there numbers behind all of it is there a dollar amount that makes people happy
00:05:21| i don't know what about your pole didn't you pull up a pole from right before coronavirus of people's happiness i thought that was very funny i was trying to figure out happiness in
00:05:30| general and most of the results are america so it's not across the world but you know it's a good light section so americans tend to be purely pretty happy
00:05:42| at least the way they answer polls another thing you have to take into consideration is who's taking the polls who's asking the poll are the answers anonymous and like
00:05:51| what are the responses like is it i can be happy or i can be sad well more happy than sad do you have 10 results can i be super happy sort of happy medium happy
00:06:01| neutral who's going to pick neutral he's never completely neutral but like there's a lot of things that go into these that we don't know but what was hilarious is
00:06:10| i pulled it up and a new high of 90 of americans are entirely satisfied with their personal life february 6 2020
00:06:24| all those people wonder what they're doing now dustin mccarthy in uh well-being uh in gallup i'm not sure what that is but anyway it's actually a really good art talked
00:06:34| about how people rank their happiness it's based on like their income their identity their free time stuff like that and it's just
00:06:42| really really funny that this was released february 6 2020 because if you just waited three weeks yep would have been completely different you would have been able to interview
00:06:52| them you wouldn't be able to pull them not in person that's for sure you can't pull people in person anymore that's that's what's happened
00:07:00| in our pc society so in that poll the bottom what below forty forty thousand dollars in was it in your bank or is that income i believe it's income because the um the
00:07:12| top one is a hundred thousand plus income and most people should be super happy right it's it's um they based it on so these are all the things that are
00:07:22| effective in your life i'm white i have a hundred thousand dollars i'm republican um i have children under age 18. you check off all these boxes for what
00:07:30| you are and then they grade you overall are you satisfied with your life or are you not satisfied with your life the number one result for satisfied with your life
00:07:41| plus and i think that was for their income yeah so i fit in that that bracket and i don't like once you make enough money you try
00:07:50| to use your money to make more money and at that point it becomes a very tricky game because there's so many people in that in that bubble and you feel like you're
00:07:57| missing opportunities like when the pandemic happened and the stock market like bottomed out aka the poll linked over over time it showed that people were happy when the
00:08:07| stock market was high so i guess in the beginning of the pandemic i missed out on opportunity so i always like regret like not putting my money in the right
00:08:15| spots so that like that pains me because i like i'm a perfect perfectionist i like not to get things wrong and i got something wrong there
00:08:24| so but it's too it's too complex to really understand it and there's way too much going on to feel like i should have known isn't there a point where though that
00:08:36| they're satisfied and it doesn't necessarily mean they're satisfied with their income or the money they have it's just they're satisfied and also
00:08:44| by coincidence i make over a hundred thousand dollars a year i think that's that's the basis chasing the money the chasing the money seems to be the
00:08:58| happiness yeah in your scenario versus maybe it's not a basis for happiness is chasing it and getting as much as you can it's just once you reach
00:09:07| over that amount you should be able to cover your bases and maybe focus on other things i'm not giving you advice i'm just saying yeah
00:09:15| so there's a piece there of like setting goals and setting new ones and then like achieving goals in the same scheme so i think whenever i play like games or even in life it's when i
00:09:26| when i'm first learning something i get super frustrated and i hate it and it's like it's really complex the beginning and you start to comprehend it and becomes less and less complex
00:09:34| and then somewhere in the middle you kind of feel like you're achieving you're striving you're doing better and then i guess towards the end you kind of top
00:09:43| out and when you top out you don't really have anything to strive for so you just kind of like ah it doesn't like feel quite right
00:09:52| do you think this is like with a video game well it's like playing a game like dishonored or you never played that one but um there's certain video games have a
00:09:59| steeper learning curve than others and there's they're wide open you can do so many different things it's overwhelming you you just can't figure out to do anything
00:10:07| but once you find your niche or like a way to like cheat the system like you can kind of oh i'm really good at this and oh damn i can get so much gold from
00:10:16| this or i can get so much credit from this or so much clout from this in real life or so much praise from this and really you bang it over and over again to the
00:10:25| point of like you're sort of spamming it you're cheating a little bit and then you're getting back big time results and you're leveling up you're promoting
00:10:34| yourself you're getting more money you're doing whatever it is you're good at and you're you're you're using the system
00:10:41| at that point there comes a point where diminishing returns i'll say i know that sounds crazy but you keep doing it but you're not getting you're not leveling up as much
00:10:50| you're not achieving the same high you're not getting as much out of it and so i think i think in one sense you've exposed that you're cheating the
00:11:00| system there are dozens of different ways to achieve that goal and i think if you apply different ways you might find they're interesting it's like
00:11:08| easy with dishonored because i can say i can stealth everyone and use like sleeping darts and break people's necks and not get caught ever and quicksave and quick load
00:11:19| and i've never seen but there's other ways to play the game i mean there's ways to level up your strength there's ways to weather level level up your health um magic
00:11:28| invisible like do you remember oh yes you do the dishonored dude who can play at incredible pace he cuts people's heads off he throws their own heads out
00:11:38| there oh and then like shoots an arrow yeah yeah yeah and shoots an arrow through that head and as he's falling off a building he's killing someone like there's other ways to cheat the
00:11:46| game or get good at the game and i think it's it's important that when you go too far in depth in one way you cheat yourself the other ways and i think
00:11:56| that's what you're missing that make sense yeah it does so i've been like mildly obsessed with playing factorio for a really long time for like three weeks now
00:12:10| how many minutes into the episode factorio yeah i well i think i'm close to the end of it at least i thought it was like maybe 100 or 200 hours ago
00:12:20| and i realized that the satisfaction i get from that game is directly linked to the complexity that i don't understand or like that i can't complime like
00:12:29| possibly get so the cheat you don't understand yeah well the whole the whole point of the game is to not do anything right it's really like you're supposed
00:12:39| to not be like bound to your physical body so you're gathering resources the resources build the things that you're like they're in
00:12:46| this little like automation thing like a little box little house and then like you need to place more of those things and route more of the things and plug things in it's like
00:12:55| routing wires so plug those in like get an amp get like guitars like bunch of like plugging amps in and like routing like audio signals like with a mixer
00:13:04| a bunch of people who like podcasts um it's the same ideas that you're routing all these things in different locations for builds or different things eventually you get to
00:13:13| the point where you have these like robots that take care of all of that and like for a while like i guess i was like there's no way to track where everything
00:13:23| is so you didn't know if your robots were doing a a productive enough job did that bother you it's no no no the robots like will
00:13:31| follow your direction but like there's no way to trace like that robot was here he did that like literally there's like 30 000 robots in the
00:13:41| like the game i'm playing now and then they automate the process so you can actually individually check on them yeah and what i didn't realize in that game is that
00:13:49| for the longest time yes you wanted to check today or make sure they weren't are you guys going on bathroom breaks i want metrics for all your robots let me see
00:14:01| your robots here what have you been up to seven minutes ago just off hand if if your life depended on have you pissed yourself yet is that
00:14:09| oh that's done you haven't you're you have um you better you better work harder yeah yes sir so guys like the complexity of it is that like
00:14:23| you could change one thing and there's a trickle down and you can actually like see it like the satisfacting satisfactory part of it
00:14:30| is that you can actually like change one piece and then you follow the supply line like you can see you can see all the changes that you make
00:14:38| it's so you're in control yeah you can you can tweak it um the crazy part that i didn't comprehend and the part that made me like
00:14:47| completely satisfact satisfied was that there are these achievements that are completely arbitrary and that's this is like life is that there's things that are
00:14:57| completely arbitrary of like xbox live achievements or in the game or oh god yeah that's fine produce whatever amount for like an hour and it's like that's hard to do so i
00:15:07| went and i started looking at and i actually like beat one of like the time ones actually it was like complete the game in eight hours
00:15:14| and i completed it in seven after failing like four times so i spent that much time doing it and like failing and learning and like understanding that like oh i was doing
00:15:26| something like inefficient eventually i got to a point where i was like okay that's not a big deal but it wasn't really that satisfying like i was just like yeah
00:15:34| i did it like woohoo i think what i figured out later was that like you can like copy and paste things and like not even like have to move and then like you could
00:15:46| just like i so in my other like i went back to my old games i took the entire base that i had built the entire [ __ ] thing and i was just
00:15:54| like boop and then boop i dropped it so i doubled i doubled my base and then all the robots are just like and then they're like they just like
00:16:02| a waves of them it's it's like it was it looked like a giant tidal wave of like robots just like dropping things it was crazy so i guess in the point of it is that like there's no way
00:16:15| i would have sat there and done that manually it's too complex for me to even like really like like draw it out but there's a piece of me that
00:16:23| understands that like this is my intention and it becomes abstract like at a certain point like there's no way i could be like
00:16:31| i like i know like everything i blueprinted and dropped down was like something i had done so there was intention when i first did it and then duplicating it it
00:16:40| was like just there's no way i could comprehend like every little piece that i did and then duplicate it and everything what i think ultimately we'll come back
00:16:51| to again is cheating i don't think anyone ever gets good at anything all the things i'm good at i just know how to cheat at and i'm not saying that
00:17:01| in like an underhanded path but like yeah shortest path but like it's it's funny when you think about it in sports so in sports i was always really good at like let's say uh hockey stick handling
00:17:16| like a not a great skater not a great anything at hockey i'm not fundamentally good at anything but i love the stick handle and when i would skate forward towards a
00:17:24| defender i literally don't even think oh what's his arm angle oh what's his probability of going left to right i just literally know that if he's kind
00:17:32| of facing inwards a little bit i can cut in like i'm going to go towards his inside and go outside and then just turn on the burners and go around them
00:17:39| there's nothing about it that's really technical or savvy like there might be on the internals of my brain but ultimately i just pick that if he's facing that way
00:17:47| maybe facing another way or like it looks like i can cross them over to the left like i'll do it i'll go back to the backhand and go in on them
00:17:54| but anything you're good at when i meet new people and i just talk with them i don't think hey i should strike up the conversation with fellow b and say these things
00:18:03| i just freaking do it and feel off of what they're feeling but there's usually a way to cheat you just you just do it you don't really think
00:18:12| about it you kind of just take this shortcut every time like you you jump start something you what you're saying you duplicate a process and then you know that if the result
00:18:24| comes back a or if it's b you pick the other or you pick vice versa and you have this this plan already laid out in your head and you don't really think about it i
00:18:32| didn't plan it but but it's there like if i talk to bryce harper about hitting a baseball he could tell me as much as he wants but he's not thinking
00:18:44| anything he's telling me he's not like you keep your shoulder up here you move your angle here when you see the ball here you got to go drive through make sure the barrel is making
00:18:51| as much contact with the center no he's just doing it he can't give you all the experiences that led up to him hitting a home run not at all and it's and he's also not thinking of them every
00:19:02| time he does it he's literally cheating he has a if if x do y and z do j you know there's a million things and but they're natural they're real quick
00:19:13| and that's the secret to anything we do in life and things can be infinitely complex like playing a sport like ice hockey where you're
00:19:21| gliding on a blade and like over ice and there's friction and you gotta take into account this and the angles but you don't take into account all of them you kind of take shortcuts
00:19:30| if he's facing this way and he's a little inside and i'm pretty sure i can beat him on speed we're doing this if he's doing you know what i mean like it's about shortcuts and i think you
00:19:40| what you're explaining what you do with factorio is a shortcut also you you know what systems kind of work you know where to cut some of the fat i don't think you
00:19:49| you literally think of every infinitesimal combination you could possibly have at every point right you just kind of know the ones
00:19:58| that sort of work the way a musician knows what patterns sort of work and musically the way that you we all know shortcuts i think shortcuts is like kind of what we
00:20:09| do and that's how we boil down all these super complex [ __ ] yeah this kind of fits into uh like mastery so like the amount of time that
00:20:21| i spent playing factorio is like sub 100 hours and like when you really master something malcolm gladwell i think calls it like
00:20:33| that's when you've like learned all you can learn that's when you become a master and that's when you like it's very seldom that you're like i doubt you are surprised by something in
00:20:42| any video game after 10 000 hours yeah you probably would not be surprised by anything i would argue that that number could change depending on what the item is playing a
00:20:52| game of checkers is probably different than uh ten thousand hours of rubric or violin or something like that in the music you know what i mean there's
00:21:02| probably a difference but but to a degree x amount of hours doing something mundane or not um practice or not freelance or not like you will run into
00:21:12| so many things after 10 000 hours you're probably not running into anything now yeah so you know all the cheat codes yeah and the learn processes are probably
00:21:19| subliminal like you like subconscious you just like kind of execute the pieces that you don't need to think about but you know are the best because you've already been through those scenarios
00:21:28| multiple times which i'm calling cheat codes but like think of it i mean it's it's literally you have x y i always do x even if it's probability based
00:21:37| probability is that it will work out in the end it'll be better for you it doesn't always work but i mean there's no perfect response for anything i don't think is there uh oh
00:21:48| is instead of perfection in a it depends what i guess checkers or hockey or this or that or violin is there perfection in violin or guitar
00:21:58| i have no idea i don't know man maybe like perfect notes or something like imagine like someone telling you you're like slightly off well violin's
00:22:06| crazy because you don't have like frets right so like you could be slightly off but what if it evokes more emotion to be slightly off well which which is better
00:22:18| i guess that's that's a good point what so what is perfect here's something that's um crazy that i thought we were going to get into i don't know we will so bring it up
00:22:28| when you say complex something can be so complex where if you're playing a violin or something like that and you're playing a note what's
00:22:38| happening chemically between your fingers and like the wood of the board and like the string and even more more chem more than
00:22:50| chemically what happens molecularly so let's say there's a lot of carbon and hydrogen in your fingers do they actually cross over into the the molecules or the atoms of the violin
00:23:02| they have to right there's no way they don't touch it interference between them you have sweaty palms or something how much how much crossover is there are
00:23:11| there like you know a couple hundred thousand of my atoms cross over into the its atoms is that is that what happens i have no idea so those were they this are they
00:23:21| miles apart i have no idea so i love this one and i know a lot about science got it i know i know science i'm the best scientist i'm the best of
00:23:30| science i'm just telling you friggin your molecules how far apart are they so i love this one subreddit uh artisan videos
00:23:38| and there was one that i showed you about the the father and son making guitars yes and it was like it was a long video yeah it was like an hour long
00:23:49| but like the way they went back and forth about things i didn't understand and they're like you know they're like making like the bends in the wood and then like
00:23:57| talking about in a way i've never heard anybody talk about it and they both kind of like like say what you know like they would just kind of look at each other and nod
00:24:06| and be like i i like this like this like i don't even know what terms they were using and then they'd both be like yeah well yeah yeah yeah yeah i think just
00:24:14| and then like they would just do it and just like kind of quietly like do things that i could never like i don't think i could ever do like i don't know how
00:24:22| to make a guitar they had an entire workshop filled with these like tiny like these tools that just kind of like oh if we use this like let me grab that other like whatever jig and then like
00:24:33| tension over here and it puts a bend in the neck just the right angle where string tension will make sure that these notes ring out in such a way
00:24:42| that like it's more hollow body but like you can feel the resonance down lower than you would in a restructural guitar built here and you're like sure like you'd be saying this
00:24:54| some guy buys that guitar that we do think we literally watched yeah well [ __ ] it let's say he does know it it's in his house he plays it a bunch of
00:25:03| times whatever he has kids uh eventually his kid's like 16 all right the kids into um whatever comes after like mickey mouse club it's like something in like the
00:25:13| year 2040. it's some really corny ass [ __ ] but he's he kind of likes guitar because his dad has all these nice guitars he picks up that guitar and he's playing the world's
00:25:25| most incorrect tab for the mickey mouse theme song and he's playing it to impress his friends right while he's doing this like he was eating
00:25:34| ice cream he has sticky fingers it's all over the thing he's playing incorrectly on maybe the world's most beautiful instrument like while that's going on
00:25:42| there's a news report that world war three has started literally there are bombs being dropped children in yemen have literally been cut in half pieces blown to smithereens
00:25:53| like there's a weird thing where what's the the history of this instrument the disdain for this 16 year old child who shouldn't
00:26:03| be able to hold something that expensive discord that care thought yeah and then while it's going on there's world war iii has just started there are millions
00:26:12| who died and this is flashing across the screens everywhere how do you justify all three of those things happening at once let alone where they are in relation to
00:26:21| the sun and the earth whether it's a full moon that night and whether there's so many what i'm saying is complexity can get really [ __ ] complex
00:26:32| it kind of sounded like serendipity and the bad like is there a bad version of serendipity or is it still serendipity chaos
00:26:39| chaos dippity [Laughter] sarin disparity i don't know i'm trying to think a word but yeah yeah i don't know i don't know there's
00:26:52| so there's what i was thinking about right before you went into that uh diatribe or whatever that was sorry was like so these the achievements that
00:27:04| like i was going for were like purely numerical or they're time based or like they're very like structured so it's very like you know it's definitive it's like a requirement
00:27:13| fulfill requirement pretty much if you have a finished track with millions of machines and millions of resources you can divert all of them and cheat to like focus and
00:27:22| make this one thing to get this achievement did you ever play a game that was like the whole game was like get achievements i was like
00:27:32| every possibility was like you you did or did not do this therefore you get an achievement for not doing it or doing it it wasn't stanley powerball correct no no no it was it was much simpler than
00:27:42| that like the whole game was just like figure out how to get all the achievements and it was just like made it was just like a running simulator like you were like
00:27:50| jumping on stuff and it's like congratulations you jumped once achievement it's like you jump twice achievement and it's like
00:27:57| it's just nuts yeah it's hilarious because that's totally playing into that perfectionist thing but like tongue-in-cheek i would hope yes yeah i think what she
00:28:06| would like you what you get on what you like when you actually like something uh so like in say um assassin's creed or like crackdown or i'm sure there's other ones
00:28:17| oh uh rush it had like keys in the city it has these like floating orbs or flags it's like there's a completion and completionist element to it to like
00:28:27| collect them all you gotta catch them all right so i feel like the achievements are there to give you a goal to make you
00:28:37| accept that the number doesn't matter like no matter how many orbs or keys or you know flags they put out there you just enjoy playing the game so you want to
00:28:47| complete the game in the eyes of the creator so what you're talking about is like a uh play it get every ending get every
00:28:57| weapon get every experience from the game play through as this character play through as this character you want every playthrough
00:29:03| when every weapon you want to experience all the endings and you want to experience all the the play styles everything you just love the game let's that
00:29:11| all the complexity of the game because there's nuances in there right because when you start to learn a little bit more about that final whatever you're getting
00:29:20| you're like oh you make a realization that like oh they designed it this way because of that or you know this is like a little delayed because
00:29:28| this has to happen or or it's really spaced but it's just funny you say this because i'm not a um completionist guy yeah there's one game in my steam
00:29:37| library that has a hundred percent how was it and i'm pretty sure i know what it was i just want to make sure i'll buy you time by by talking about complexity because we
00:29:46| play these games as like you know the basis is the game what people don't ever take into account is like achieving something while playing a
00:29:57| computer like a game on a computer is probably like the ultimate ultimately the most complex thing you could possibly do right because the very origin of things
00:30:11| like electricity transistors like having a computer like playing it being on the internet and like maybe multiplayer actually being like connected to like
00:30:20| the community of people talking about the game and then having developers like spend a year like making the physics or like how
00:30:28| things interact like the level of complexity that goes into a video game is like built on all of this technology that you can't there's no possible way
00:30:38| you can comprehend like the internet there's no way you like you can go to one little piece and be like take away like a few pieces from it read a website well read a website web
00:30:47| page like figure out this one thing but the entirety of life is figuring out like one thing and then like okay next thing and then like you make
00:30:57| little connections along the way sometimes you hit a bunch of connections which are in a inside inside that was it was like the highest level of
00:31:09| achievement like what was the best one the best one well i had 100 on that one uh no i mean like out of all those achievements which one do you remember
00:31:20| um pulling the worm out of the pig's ass you remember i didn't do that maybe i did do that one i don't know he probably did because like it's just a weird thing
00:31:30| where might be like yeah yeah you're like what the hell is going on here dude where'd that worm come from uh there's just like what you said i would agree with and
00:31:41| disagree with i don't think it's the most complex thing in the world but what's interesting enough is making a computer game is trying to simulate a life experience
00:31:54| and ironically it's on a simulation machine so what you said is very true and kind of very funny so you have to power up your electronic simulation machine to power
00:32:04| on your simulation which is constantly being updated with different graphics card things uh programming things fixes community workarounds like
00:32:14| add-ons bonus features like stuff that they also have to the cool thing about a video game is that a video game creator has to account for or make you be able to do
00:32:27| a billion different choices like you have to be able to run here and then here and then do the achievement or here and then here and then do the achievement or here here and not do the
00:32:37| achievement or here and here and here here and here here and then here and then do the achievement like there's so many you could do everything quickly slowly
00:32:45| the wrong way the right way and i think that is kind of cool so you touched on like distilling down to an essence of something
00:32:54| and like i aspire to make video games in the future i've not made like a complete one yet i've like pieces of them but like i'll have ideas for games
00:33:06| when hell was the guy who made factorial he got talking younger than i uh yeah he's younger than me ever was yeah but
00:33:16| like i have these little ideas and i think you touched on it is that you're trying to emulate like an essence of of something that you experienced when you were younger
00:33:24| and you're trying to replicate it or like capture what it is to like in factorio capture what it is to like manage like everything down to like the minutes
00:33:34| detail and like see the ripple effect of it like very few things in real life like you can actually see the ripple effects
00:33:43| like you might be able to throw a stone in the water and that's the most like closely related thing but i think you can problem is they take reliable because in 10 years you might
00:33:56| not care you know what it means like the cool thing about a simulation is i want to see what it looks like in five minutes fortune in this venture in life and see
00:34:07| how that turns out in 15 years let's wait like you know no one has that so what you're saying is yours is a it's a sped up
00:34:17| version of some version of life i think so and i i think i like games like that because i need that like i need the the satisfaction i need do you like to
00:34:30| know what the alternatives are like do you like to no no the alternatives to like a a decision or a choice oh yeah like do you like to play through
00:34:40| possibly so when you play first-person shooters like dishonored etc um there are spots where you can decide to take a room by stealth um you can take over an enemy and use
00:34:52| magic there's brute force you go in guns blazing do you ever do a quick save before the room 100 there's like 11 guys in here
00:35:00| and you go in and do it one way and you literally beat it but then you're like what a this is have you played arkham asylum batman that's one of the ones where you
00:35:11| can like chain things together and fight people like he can fight like legitimately like a dozen people at the same time and how you like using this special
00:35:21| power and a punch combo and yeah you can like use multiples of people as a combo into another person and then it's just like the
00:35:30| it just like blows your mind that you can understand that like oh if i get this group of people and like do this thing to them then they're gonna be knocked down and i could spin
00:35:39| off of them and then kick that guy in the face while kicking the other guy in the face and then jump up there and then it's just like it it does something that just like hits on a nerve where you're
00:35:49| just like like it's so so much happiness that you like figured it out and also it just i don't know it's awesome because you've never seen it
00:35:58| before like most games don't do that they don't allow you to do that and they're like structured in a way that like you just broke like you broke the structure of
00:36:07| most video games by like executing that one move i love it did they want you to do that yeah the quick safe yeah oh 100 yeah the creators wanted you to
00:36:21| do that correct yeah what you do not like the way you like lock on other guys yeah like the way you can like choose which guy to lock onto or like your next
00:36:29| move you're like chaining your moves together by like figuring out how you move through the crowd of people and it's pretty awesome i didn't beat it and i didn't get to the point where i'm
00:36:39| fighting dozens like i'll fight like five and six guys in a room and it's pretty badass and i got different like power-ups and i'm choosing my path now but
00:36:47| no i don't think i've come across that but that's pretty i'll keep going so the quick save part of it i get that so like the quick save what game quick save the most in
00:37:00| i like buy this i know mine mine was half life one i don't maybe like a resident evil maybe quick save a lot because you're like did that have quick safe
00:37:11| i don't think it did feel like you had ribbons you had to have ribbons in a freaking typewriter which was awful by the way yeah it makes it so that you have to
00:37:20| plan it out but you have to know in advance when it's like playing it multiple times helped a lot yep which is what i did i like have you
00:37:28| played the great games over and over again yeah yeah metal metal solid i got the ribbon i got the stealth thing i finished different endings for that
00:37:37| game this is what i was going to ask you what did you over completionize as far as games i actually did that with resident evil 2 i got like all different endings
00:37:45| i tried to get tofu i did not get tofu you know tofu was yeah i got tofu waka tofu you got the block of tofu yeah did you have to beat that at a certain
00:37:54| time using like less than bullets than usual or something yeah yeah i have to let this one now his name was hunk right i think it was wait and what was your power so you boot
00:38:07| up the game as a piece of tofu with a knife is that what it was which isn't a cool thing which is hilarious i think that's so resident evil 2 was
00:38:16| great because i beat it with leon i beat it with claire i beat it with like no grenades i beat it with all grenade launchers i beat it with infinite ammo i made it with
00:38:25| just different things fighting nemesis and everything ada wong and then there's a crocodile that eats a canister you're going to blow its face off
00:38:34| games like that you play through again and again i enjoy those this is solid it says that you beat it once as one character and there's the other character
00:38:44| and then uh there's like a fourth survivor mode which i don't remember at all yeah at all they re-released this game so maybe it's easier to get um hunk in
00:38:53| that new mode anyway you could play as a block of tofu which had no power-ups or any real help in your life
00:39:01| and people strive to do it i never actually did it jealous yeah you know well yeah you're a loser nick it's okay that'll get you solid i
00:39:13| every which way from wednesday probably that game like seven ten times this is your passion it's crazy because like a passion for a game like just i feel like you you
00:39:24| live the experience of the game so much so that you enjoy just the being of the game which is a really strange thing yeah yeah we both
00:39:34| understand thoroughly how the game feels and we're connected to it in a way that just like there's a feedback loop and i was like yeah it should be this way
00:39:43| and we expect it and like watching us the difference there's watching other people fail at the same thing because you both have equal playing ground or whatever you would call equal
00:39:54| playing ground with playing different central yeah each other different right yeah there's an inherent advantage that i think we had that
00:40:03| you just kind of you absorb it and once you're in it the i don't know but isn't that again isn't that cheating not even to take away from it because cheating is just finding something
00:40:17| not a glitch finding a shortcut finding a glitch finding something that wasn't necessarily intended or overt and just hammering it again and again because
00:40:27| we learned how to dodge bullets how to hide behind cover how ducking around the corner at the last second will avoid gunfire how you can technically hit the stab
00:40:36| button when your x amount of feet away even though it should be a little closer it no it'll count times certain guns and like how fast you can move
00:40:45| how they like only have certain exits or certain entries you know that like 90 something percent of the time they're going to go this way first because everyone's shooting
00:40:59| so it's funny we got we got very into video games yeah we did that's because it's this is the most like how how else can you play out the most
00:41:10| uh possibilities which is kind of what we're pointing at with complexity is that in life you only really get like you know
00:41:18| you make your own choices but your choices take a lot longer and like even like your emotional scale like it takes a while for emotions to click in and then like
00:41:26| if you feel like depressed about something it's like very hard to figure out like why like why do i feel this way like people don't understand their own
00:41:34| emotions which is very bizarre so they don't like they might have just achieved something like great they might have been like at the top of whatever their game and
00:41:42| they'd be like ah like i i guess i guess i got it you know it doesn't like sometimes it doesn't register well it's a weird point it's true it's like
00:41:52| we talked about that in mastery when you've worked so hard for something and you put so many hours into it by the time you do it whatever it is execute the deal perform
00:42:02| a symphony do all this stuff you're not doing some grand thing that you've never done before you're doing something you've practiced for 9 000
00:42:10| hours it just feels like another practice day so when you've done it you finished it you probably don't even hear the joy in it you just heard maybe where i
00:42:18| almost made a mistake maybe where i could have cleaned this up maybe where i did this and someone else hears wow i don't know anyone could play that
00:42:25| good or i didn't know anyone could do this that good and you're just like yeah i'm pretty good but i missed a couple notes
00:42:32| i gotta clean that up tomorrow i'll practice for like four hours like you know what i mean yeah that's like the movie the truman show that's where the guy lives entire life
00:42:41| being filmed he has no idea and then he finally breaks free and then it goes through the people that are like celebrating and like cheering because he finally escaped
00:42:50| the bubble that he was forced to live in and then like the comment was like oh what do you want to watch now and change the channel did you see the uh tweet going around
00:43:03| about that the attention to detail in that movie no why i just wanna it went around two days ago and it was about uh the attention details insane like they
00:43:12| show you the cameras and everything i'll share it with you it was just funny it came up two days ago what do you mean like give us an example because you're you're
00:43:22| ruining pressure on it autobahn do you know where he meets the brothers or the twins or whatever they are every day and like they're like heavyset
00:43:30| and they laugh and stuff and they have a business that he never goes inside okay it's intentional that the front of their business ends and you can see like a
00:43:40| drain at the bottom and being like what why would it and it's like oh it's a farce all the newspaper episodes if you look at all the newspapers zoomed
00:43:50| in they show you it's the number of days truman has been alive so the episode will say like x v x i i i i'm not good at roman numeral math on
00:44:01| the run while i'm doing an episode but it would be like 32 complex ears yeah um like there's just a lot of detail so they put cameras like the little black
00:44:12| circles with the bubbles that's like a camera like a security camera on everything in that show intentionally not to hide it from anyone to show you that he's being filmed
00:44:22| it's on like half the trash cans you see in the city that people are wheeling out it's in his office in the background it's on all these buildings it's everywhere
00:44:31| like someone had circled it well just i'll again i'll share this thing and it's like oh that's pretty cool like they really cared about the details that made me hit on um okay
00:44:43| like sometimes you meet people that are like too quick and this i mean i worked for nasa for a really long time so there's a lot of people that are like trying to be quick
00:44:52| and what i found is that like sometimes people respond quicker than i can like work through a scenario and i wonder like how like how are they thinking so fast and then
00:45:02| after a long period of time i realized that like after years i realized that like there's a lot of people that like to jump to the conclusion without actually
00:45:09| like reasoning out all the possible scenarios and they just want to be like the herald they want to skip over everything and just be like hey i got to this point
00:45:16| and it's like you know 90 of the time they're like yeah they skip to the right point like they thought about the right point for long enough but they didn't really think about all
00:45:25| the like odd ends the possibilities that you know they didn't reason it all out check this out what you're describing is the opposite of like an autistic spectrum
00:45:37| he's like let's say you were like super autistic super like and not like you couldn't function in society but where you refuse to accept things for um
00:45:48| a forsaken conclusion without going through all of the facts and you're like he did say hello and good morning but it was afternoon did he mean good
00:45:56| afternoon we should review more facts he did this you could go on for hours reviewing everything someone did said or whatever what they could have meant and what they
00:46:06| would have meant but if you really spent double the time you did what would we call that a big waste of time yeah
00:46:13| i mean i i don't disagree but that individual i put my mind behind them whether they got it right in the end you know what i mean i'm like yeah you're
00:46:24| right dude he was making fun of you at breakfast the other day yeah you got it i didn't do your nose i do this with like when i was like dating women i would
00:46:33| always like super over analyze everything like did they really mean that and then like you look back at the other day like yesterday like oh [ __ ] like why did i
00:46:41| say that like i know she meant oh crap but that's you think about this dude so hold on you're married right yeah did you think of anything your wife may have said cutting at dinner within
00:46:50| two dinners ago i think it's a little dry was she giving real criticism or was she actually oh she was just saying it is like a passing comment
00:47:00| oh wait a minute she said it was dry a month ago wednesday when you know what i mean like you could it was so easy yeah i don't know it wasn't even
00:47:10| human i don't so yeah i i don't there's a point where i guess what you feel the emotion between two people yeah no what you feel between two people
00:47:23| has nothing to do with what you say and after a long period of time you realize that like what you're saying like the the details might be completely ridiculous and
00:47:32| make no sense at all but you can share like information with another person without ever making sense and they can enjoy it excuse me it's different guys and girls
00:47:42| different different between them like sharing information yeah 100 yeah sure if you live with them let's say me and you live together do you think it would
00:47:50| be different or would you say anything like grunts no no you would you say this i bought the last three toothpastes i thought maybe when you bought one you
00:47:59| would buy the same one we always have and i'd say like this oh this one was on sale i just i just got that one and you'd say oh well it doesn't have extra whitening
00:48:09| you have to see it a little bit i'd say and say well we got three tubes of whitening one without we'll do three more tubes of waiting what's the big deal
00:48:19| i turn around and go back to what i was doing and it would annoy you because it would be like tapping yeah then you'd be like you'd be like well that's funny because
00:48:28| my three tubes cost nineteen dollars your one two cost four dollars that's doesn't seem to add up yeah that's like me eating like corn on the cob and then tasting the butter on
00:48:38| it and go like is this unsalted butter i can imagine her saying what that's all they had it's coronavirus like it was hard to shop and you're like
00:48:55| i don't try not there was salted butter right next to this unsalted butter how dare you have any footage it's the same price i checked online so it's funny we got here but it's like
00:49:11| like complexity complexity or satisfaction or i don't know well human interaction is like the most complex thing because it i think it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
00:49:20| and then to have like a male and a female counterpart like battling in really weird obscure ways it's just like a like a learning experience and it's like it's not
00:49:31| necessarily that you like become better at things it's just become more tolerable when you become more entrenched in things those battles become battles
00:49:39| later on i would tell you the opposite i would say as you grow live longer you're trying not to well no no i'm
00:49:51| i have this theory that the reason life seems to go faster every year is for two reasons and we've literally discussed it one when you're
00:50:01| two years old one year is fifty percent of your life yeah you really fifty percent of your life that's a long freaking time if you're 90 it's 19th of your life
00:50:13| fraction someone do a fraction 10 i don't [ __ ] know it doesn't matter anyway when you're 90. one year is like when you're 90 and you add one year yeah what is that
00:50:31| say move that decimal anyway it's 1.1 percent of your life so imagine of your life right now and you're like yep just did it again like a natural progression everything seems
00:50:44| like it's moving quicker two you make so many new connections find so many new people and you you hardly ever sever entirely old connections
00:50:55| in fact what i would say is you develop these things like i have a friend who contacts me every four years i have a friend oh my aunt i really have to visit her
00:51:04| every eight years um you run into these things that are like pattern developed but you've never experienced these patterns until you
00:51:12| know a pattern that's 40 years old i don't even know a 40 year old pattern i'm not there yet maybe there is one every 40 years x happens so now i have to add
00:51:22| this pattern into my one year pattern into my things that happen every week things that happen every day friends that show up every three months every other year and then like all these
00:51:32| things keep conjoining and you are so entwined with so many god damn things conversations drama people you know
00:51:42| uncles that hit you up because they're drunk every four years and three months for whatever reason and it's just crazy because they won't go away unless they die and we're hoping they
00:51:54| don't die but then again maybe on the anniversary of their death everyone kind of calls each other and then you have that extra connection to
00:52:02| do and there are literally so many things and anniversaries and people and occurrences and cycles that show up in your life the longer you
00:52:13| live that you literally run out of time that's what kills us i've decided the most complex complexity of life is what kills us
00:52:24| it's like a tree my roots get so deep i can't move left i can't move right you think i could decide to just go to costa rica tomorrow good day not permanently
00:52:36| not even for like an hour i get in big trouble so this is an off the wall topic but when you die how do you want to be celebrated
00:52:51| i think this actually sounds [ __ ] up and i think this is ultimately a weird thing it should be good it's not this is the sad part i wanted
00:53:01| people to like drink crazy amount of beers and like raise glasses and tell crazy stories about something i did or like this one time i did whatever or bury my ashes
00:53:11| and everyone gets so crazy wasted and has a great time and no one's crying and all this but like ultimately what if it's like the divorce date for one of my friends or like
00:53:24| for somebody yo yeah what if it is i don't get the pick he doesn't get the pic and then what if it's like some girl i used to date and um
00:53:31| um she's actually getting eye surgery that day yeah [ __ ] up she had something wrong with her eye and it's like she couldn't even make the funeral
00:53:38| and then like what if like my dad is like really sad he's still alive somehow because usually you know parents i love the kids all that and he's like he's like uh i want to go
00:53:48| and he goes and he wants to say all these things because he's emotional everything but he's like not a good public speaker and he feels sick to his stomach and he has bad fish
00:53:56| in the morning and then like he can't even speak breakfast he said breakfast fish i don't know why he did it it was a crazy thing but like what if all this [ __ ] happens
00:54:07| they hire a priest because they don't know what i wanted and like the priest is terrible and it's like a long boring mess and they bury my ass and then everyone's
00:54:15| like ah i gotta drive tonight it's tuesday big day i work tomorrow i might get a promotion like i'm not gonna begrudge any of these
00:54:23| people to make any of these decisions because that's just life so what's gonna happen it's gonna be like a regular [ __ ] day where some people are sad and i'm like [ __ ]
00:54:32| i wish people had this epic matrix party where they had an orgy and like everybody's sweating and dripping all over each other doing nuts
00:54:45| but ultimately it's gonna be a tuesday for someone it's gonna be someone's wedding anniversary it's gonna be a day someone has an eye exam later in the day you and your extended family from every
00:54:56| age range just like raving and sweating and chanting and pounding bodies together grandmas and i would love it but it's gonna be way more boring than that
00:55:07| do you think you might ever portray it right what do you what do you think what how do i want to be remember wish for whatever you want remember i when it goes it's going to be
00:55:16| boring it's going to be a regular tuesday or something and people are going to be sad don't get me wrong i just i don't know i feel like it whatever the
00:55:24| traditional thing is like bury you say mass like it it's always off the mark i think i would always want to have something unique and special and i think
00:55:32| i'd probably make it so like something crazy what do you want yeah i told you about the best way to go man hire two helicopters
00:55:40| drop your body from the top or under the blades underneath and just shower everywhere grand theft auto oh my god it's so beautiful
00:55:50| that would be horrendous about all the people below the helicopter the second helicopter yes no that's the whole point yeah check this if you had the money for it
00:56:02| could you even ensure it's going to happen even if you paid them ahead of time the helicopter people yeah and they signed off
00:56:10| on chopping up their body and just showering people on entrails your intros would they even do it and you're dead who's who's gonna argue with them if they're
00:56:20| like we really can't we're gonna send this money back we really appreciate it but it's against our judgment which that would make me so mad but you're
00:56:27| dead maybe probably find you like clinically insane you get put in a mental hospital and then you would be able to get no you're dead before you even get there what after you
00:56:38| know what if you have jeff bezos money you could probably pass the law through and get people to sign off on it but are they really going to do it once he's dead they're like he was
00:56:48| [ __ ] nuts we're not doing that right no we're not doing that we're good it's like really creative assisted suicide oh that's the only way you can guarantee
00:56:57| it is if you're still living and it was your way to die and you're like all right sir step out of the helicopter into the other helicopter
00:57:12| oh my god the little points are below enjoy your trip to valhalla sir oh my god i was just oh there's one story about like the easiest way that like they're legitimately is a group
00:57:27| that will help you like hands off help you assisted suicide it's like the most peaceful way and that's like the reverse of like
00:57:35| i guess you wouldn't feel it i think it's cool but you might like you might still have like you might be a severed head that can still blink and look around and like
00:57:43| that's what bothers me the most really there's like like five seconds you probably have no feeling anymore what if they like somehow it like cauterized like
00:57:52| your neck and then you're just like you steal ultimate feel yeah how do you feel the most pain is like helicopter blades sound like
00:58:00| yeah that's that's probably not a good way come on dude this is do you know why animals like you see a squirrel that's been run over but it's still alive
00:58:11| yeah mm-hmm how much pain do you think it's feeling oh the worst it's got to be the worst i think so dude i think it's just overload your body can't take that much pain
00:58:20| squirrels could scream i think you'd be they'd think differently if you're just like damn squirrels i've never heard a squirrel scream
00:58:35| i think i think we overestimate how much pain there is and dying or like being eviscerated or like cutting probably yeah you probably really don't feel it until you only feel so much pain and
00:58:44| then your body's just like you're you're shocked you can't move your legs it's like this weird blinding numbing sound and you're dying and it's like hey cool i can't
00:58:53| move my arms i don't know so back to what i want when i die not that not that i think not that i think what i want is to have it
00:59:06| like in a way that makes it more adventurous for other people like i want people to like take this like token of whatever i give them and
00:59:13| anna jones so boulder's gonna come down and you all grab you have to make it to the exit now that would be cool i would appreciate that yeah or like some people like take ashes
00:59:28| and they sprinkle them wherever and like that seems so tacky because like no one really knows where you want to go so there's like if you leave it open
00:59:36| oh my ash is somewhere cool we have like a bucket list of places you wanted to go but you're like forcing other people to go there no yeah no that's too much like one spot
00:59:45| and it's like a cool spot like i want to go to the beach and then you know a shark's mouth and i want the shark to poop it out you have to wait for a great white to
00:59:55| jump out of the water and shoot my ashes into its mouth this great white has to poop at 7 47 p.m in the direction of the sun there was probably so much wait what the
01:00:12| hell do you want no i don't know what the hell you want when you die i think i want other people to experience yeah like they go to the funeral like i'd rather
01:00:20| just have a party for one like your rave so other people enjoy themselves and then be like i hope they discover something new like if you said go go to like
01:00:30| that redwood forest in like california where there's like general german and you've never been there like put that token like by a tree or something like i give you like a
01:00:38| physical thing this is like like this is a piece of dan dan's in this wood is it is it [ __ ] up i have a pretty good chance to give your eulogy
01:00:46| um no you're gonna die before me so probably oh no i totally think so but if i don't guess what i i would actually i think people other
01:00:57| people would enjoy that i'd i would have enjoyed it if i was still alive at my usual chat well it's literally not for you it would be for other people and i did a podcast
01:01:05| with you that's crazy dude i know you more than a lot of people this is uh yeah this is like a factorio
01:01:17| at our 273 in five minutes you can see dan clicking here to copy and paste his base oh i could figure out how many just look at the complexity there's no way anyone can conceive of
01:01:31| factorio or human life as we yeah that's exactly as you can see here after dan's perfect experiment stopped working your mom's just crying people are just
01:01:49| crying and i'm like but let's look to the brighter moments like call of duty four or a pole by a gallop that shows that it shows his happiness was actually in
01:02:01| the 96 range based on his ethnicity age and financial well-being did you um come across this one there we go so the self
01:02:18| which is like you know like you take uh spiritual or religious courses in high school or whatever and you you base your life on the self there's four
01:02:27| um concepts self-concept self-esteem social self and self knowledge make up yourself and i actually didn't think that was bad
01:02:39| so the concept of yourself which is what you think you are what you think you're good at what you think you're bad at what you think you are going to be good at bad etc
01:02:49| self-esteem how you feel about that i'm confident in my abilities to do x i feel weird about my hips oh my god i have love handles
01:03:00| social self which is how you think your peers see you kind of uh how you see them et cetera et cetera where you fit in society and then self knowledge which
01:03:09| was like how much you actually know about yourself your greatest fears who's gonna give your eulogy that kind of fun stuff and all of that makes up you which goes
01:03:19| to your life satisfaction which i'm not going to read the whole article because it looked long but those things make up who we are and i think that's pretty good and pretty
01:03:32| i don't know makes sense when was the last time you were satisfied there we go not physically mentally satisfied oh mentally um i go through spurts where
01:03:49| i'm totally in inebriated with depression and hates my life etc and then i go through phases where i'm like yeah yo can you imagine and i say
01:04:03| something like yo uh the other day i totally got on the phone i was like maybe you should check the website you don't have a website and i'm like
01:04:12| better get it before it runs away if you say like a corny joke or do something hilarious like and hang up on someone or something you smile so hard that it doesn't matter
01:04:27| can you laugh so hard at a joke that the rest of your life doesn't matter i feel like i've heard or told some jokes that were so funny that if my life was horrible i'd be like
01:04:41| yo but hold up let me just life around are you going to tell your shovel face so what are we talking about let's wrap it up yeah come back around what did the even
01:04:58| episode have to do it it was self um confidence for me for you it was the i guess the expectation of certain things that
01:05:15| you know you're already sitting at a base that's like you're pretty well off you have a lot of things going on and as you get older those pieces like become very varied and very difficult to like
01:05:25| hone in on balance yeah and so you get a weird kind of despair where like i think that's why i played that video game so much is that like nothing that i could get the
01:05:36| satisfaction from and there's no way i could comprehend like the outcome of something that might take years to have like come to a head
01:05:47| so i guess that's the essence of it is that like life becomes so like vague yet more complex and more intricate and there's no way to comprehend all that
01:05:58| and bring it all in and like really digest it except if you play video game and you can get an achievement and it makes you feel
01:06:07| like you did something beyond the achievement i know this is great i think everything gets broader you just have so many new
01:06:19| endeavors talents things you dabble in people you know i also feel like there should be more achievements after you like after 40. like life is such such that like it's marketed towards people
01:06:32| that are younger than 40. like after you reach the stage i'll say check this i used to think once you're like 25 like that's it that's everything's
01:06:43| marketed dude clothes yeah video games going out to party now i'm 35 i feel like anyone over 35 i meant it can roll it's yeah you can keep
01:06:55| rolling it back and there is it's just like do you care about instagram models anymore or like actually looks like this is ridiculous so
01:07:05| so what do you think you're gonna do with friggin 45 dude you're gonna laugh at people who are 35 it's not going to change you're just moving the goal post and you will find
01:07:12| your own group and do you know how many 45 year olds there will be when you're 45 dozens literally dozens in the world that are there 45 with you so
01:07:25| i think you're very attuned to your own age group your own section of life your own people the own everyone's born your own helicopter blades so
01:07:40| so in in 10 years or so you'll find new helicopter blades to focus on what i will say is this is crazy and i didn't think of this before but what
01:07:50| we're talking about it's like diminishing returns and it's like you can put so much into a thing and when you first do it i put 10 in
01:08:04| holy [ __ ] sir you put 10 in sir that's incredible this is off the charts i gotta talk to my my manager now you're a 50 stockholder and it's
01:08:14| like i put one percent and they're like one percent can you put a little more now like you're like 40 you got a family you got a business you're doing this for the
01:08:23| company and everything and they're like i spent an extra 80 hours doing this this year and they're like and it's like damn diminishing returns
01:08:35| much goodness gracious you don't ever have it the opposite way where you've done something for so long that you expect it not to pay out and then
01:08:44| at the end of it you realize something it like it just changes your brain ever since you finally like oh you never had that realization at the
01:08:53| end and go damn i've wasted all this time if i had only known you know i think everything's wasted time i'm saying the
01:09:02| exact that but to the nth degree like like in business and everything and people are like you barely did anything and i'm like that's years of my life you can't say
01:09:12| that that's offensive i'm gonna cancel you you can't say that not in this culture you're done as a person i will say this everything's like a
01:09:25| [ __ ] fractal you zoom in enough it's complex as [ __ ] you zoom out enough it's complex as [ __ ] no one gets why you can zoom in you can zoom out
01:09:36| you can simplify it you can complexify it you can do whatever the [ __ ] you want no one has the answer no matter how focused you are no matter unfocused you are
01:09:45| no matter how many relationships you have no matter how many relationships you think you have it's all [ __ ] all folks yeah i said a bad word
01:09:56| come cancel us but it's way more complicated than you think okay so i couldn't follow the bit all the way i was gonna
01:10:10| check our socials and see what you gotta say to finish it up [ __ ] all folks because we like you [ __ ] all folks we like you we like you like just enough without like
01:10:23| wanting to smack you and get sued by you so okay check our links check our socials check all the stuff we do every single day online
01:10:33| yeah yeah go ahead do that do it do that do it you should thanks we like it oh my god
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